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08-07-2010, 10:58 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
Easy there, Bubba, don't you know that unions are sancrosanct???
Chas
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No, there is truth to what he says. A good idea carried too far can become a bad thing, like a runaway train, trains are good untill they can't be stopped. Perhaps, one could (arguably) say that by the 1970's unions had become too powerful. The question now is; At what point do they become too weak?
My opinion is that we are rapidly reaching that point. You may disagree, but that's how I see it.
This is a case where I believe the mentality of absolutes does us a disservice.
Is the influence of organized labor is strictly good or strictly bad?
I would say niether. I believe that the answer lies in a matter of degree.
As I see it, human beings are builders. If they do something once and it works for them, they continue to do the same over and over again, advancing whatever cause they champion, until it becomes a problem. It happened with organized labor in the twentieth century, and it will sooner or later happen with another popular movement gaining momentum as we speak............................
Dave
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Last edited by BlueStreak; 08-07-2010 at 11:04 AM.
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08-07-2010, 11:03 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,857
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Quote:
This is a case where I believe the mentality of absolutes does us a disservice.
Is the influence of organized labor is strictly good or strictly bad?
I would say niether. I believe that the answer lies in a matter of degree.
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Bah humbug. Another voice of reason in the forum. First Eddie, then you.
BTW, you're spot on.
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As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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08-07-2010, 11:05 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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The Big Three could have moved their plants to the so called "right to work" States yet they did not do so to any great degree.
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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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08-07-2010, 12:31 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
The Big Three could have moved their plants to the so called "right to work" States yet they did not do so to any great degree.
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I'm not too sure the Big Three went wrong.
No doubt they produced some real junk back in the 80's, the worst being computerized cars that still used a carb. But by the 90's they were producing some pretty good vehicles. At least GM, which is about all I've ever driven.
I guess when a sucker forks out the big bucks for a lemon, they don't forgive you easily. I had the pleasure of owning a couple of VDubs, which pretty much broke me of sucking eggs. Also had an '84 LTD wagon that literally fell apart in the driveway.
And the unions did price themselves out of a job. If the figures I've read are correct, $80-90 per hour (which includes bennies and retirement) is a little steep for assembly line work.
I guess when you combine a bad reputation with poor management and an overpriced labor force you're heading for trouble.
The only direction you can coast is downhill.
I know you're not a Toyota fan, but the Pontiac badged one my wife drives has been the most trouble free vehicle I've ever owned. Close to 120,000 and I've only replaced a headlamp and a foglamp. And the brakes still look pretty good.
The 2nd best vehicle I've ever owned was her '97 Bonneville. It was running strong at 170,000 when a miserable deer took it out. And the MPG was close to the Toyota.
Which one would I rather drive? No comparison there, the Bonneville was ten times the vehicle, as far as comfort and safety were concerned.
Chas
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08-07-2010, 01:41 PM
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Loyal Opposition
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
Posts: 14,401
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Does your wive drive the Vibe? I was looking at those until I found the Astra. I couldn't find a Vibe in my price Range. The new Astra was lower priced than the low mileage used Vibes. I've always thought hatchbacks were the most practical cars for people who don't need a van or a pickup.
Regards,
D-Ray
__________________
Then I'll get on my knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again; Don't get fooled again
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08-07-2010, 01:49 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657
Does your wive drive the Vibe? I was looking at those until I found the Astra. I couldn't find a Vibe in my price Range. The new Astra was lower priced than the low mileage used Vibes. I've always thought hatchbacks were the most practical cars for people who don't need a van or a pickup.
Regards,
D-Ray
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Sort of thread crap but the Vibe used to be built here in Fremont at the joint Toyota/GM "NUMMI" plant. That plant is now going to produce the Tesla all-electric vehicles, I think just the new sedan. Should be fun. I've seen one of the $100,000 GT cars on the road. Very cool looking.
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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08-07-2010, 02:50 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657
Does your wive drive the Vibe? I was looking at those until I found the Astra. I couldn't find a Vibe in my price Range. The new Astra was lower priced than the low mileage used Vibes. I've always thought hatchbacks were the most practical cars for people who don't need a van or a pickup.
Regards,
D-Ray
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The Vibe's her baby.
I wasn't too hep on it, as you say, they were overpriced as far as I was concerned. I was thinking along the lines of a low mileage LeSabre, but who asked me, huh?
But I'm partial to lard assed domestic automobiles, being a domestic lard ass myself!!!
I can barely drive the damn thing. Unlike a GM, which combines the turn signals, wipers, lights and cruise into one lever, this has three. One for turn signals and lights, one for wipers, and one for cruise.
The oriental mind is definitely inscrutable whenever it comes to automotive controls.
Chas
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08-07-2010, 02:53 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
Sort of thread crap but the Vibe used to be built here in Fremont at the joint Toyota/GM "NUMMI" plant. That plant is now going to produce the Tesla all-electric vehicles, I think just the new sedan. Should be fun. I've seen one of the $100,000 GT cars on the road. Very cool looking.
John
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Saturn made a slick looking little roadster...cute as a button.
But somehow, "It had room for his ass, and a gallon of gas" comes to mind.
Chas
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08-07-2010, 03:25 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
Saturn made a slick looking little roadster...cute as a button.
But somehow, "It had room for his ass, and a gallon of gas" comes to mind.
Chas
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The Sky. Same platform as the Pontiac Solstice and maybe that hideous Cadillac roadster.
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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08-07-2010, 03:36 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
The Sky. Same platform as the Pontiac Solstice and maybe that hideous Cadillac roadster.
John
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Caddy always did have a talent for making 'em fugugly.
Chas
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