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  #11  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:28 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
Really? Even when the "government spending" is directed towards private industry, in the form of orders for materials, goods and services required to build bridges, highways, etc. and then these facilities are then used by private industry? So, you would have me believe the Eisenhower Interstate Highway System has never been an asset to to industry and commerce? T.R.s Panama Canal a total waste of time and money that has never benefitted anyone? The Hoover Dam? The list goes on and on..........

This is the GOP that I miss. The GOP that builds. Whatever happened to them. When did they turn into the assholes that they are today, with all of this "NO YOU CAN"T!", "LET IT FAIL!", "AMERICAN WORKERS ARE LAZY AND OVERPAID!", etc., etc., ad nauseum?

That's what I want to know.

Dave
We're still broke.

Chas
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:48 AM
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how does spending on a war rather than infrastructure help us?

What were the economic benefits of Vietnam for example?
1. Iron? Steel? Shipbuilding? Munitions? Overseas infrastructure, built by us, at a profit?

2. Nothing, considering how we tried to do that on the cheap and never committed. Oriskany, Intrepid, Hancock, Ticonderoga, Bennington, Yorktown, New Jersey, etc? We used 25-year old ships against a 3rd World "power"...
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:04 PM
noonereal noonereal is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
1. Iron? Steel? Shipbuilding? Munitions? Overseas infrastructure, built by us, at a profit?

So the war goods we sold benifited us? That I agree with. Can't we do that (as many countries do) without being part of the conflict?

2. Nothing, considering how we tried to do that on the cheap and never committed. Oriskany, Intrepid, Hancock, Ticonderoga, Bennington, Yorktown, New Jersey, etc? We used 25-year old ships against a 3rd World "power"...


How could the Vietnam war have benefited us economically if we did not "do it on the cheap?"
If we built new ships for ourselves aren't we just redistributing income with no long term gain? (unless we use them to seize the wealth of another country)
If we build them for other nations isn't that a win win? (unless they turn and fire on us)
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:07 PM
noonereal noonereal is offline
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We're still broke.

Chas
Yes, but his point was that if we used the money as capital investment it could both stimulate the economy immediately and provide and on going revenue source that would more than pay for itself. To my mind, a smart move when 18% of working folks ain't workin'.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:10 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
how does spending on a war rather than infrastructure help us?

What were the economic benefits of Vietnam for example?
At least building infrastructure can be used for the creation of wealth. The best I understand, the interstate highway system was built to make the transfer of war materials more efficient.

And while we need a military, it doesn't actually create wealth. It does create jobs, and the connected may grow wealthy, but it is funded by taxes on the producers of goods and services, and by the government taking on additional debt.

We do have to pay, or at least create the illusion that we are paying, interest on that debt.

Chas
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  #16  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:35 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
Yes, but his point was that if we used the money as capital investment it could both stimulate the economy immediately and provide and on going revenue source that would more than pay for itself. To my mind, a smart move when 18% of working folks ain't workin'.
I agree, we need to jump start the economy, get people back to work, spending money, and paying taxes.

The current administrations focus on sustainable growth (green energy, higher prices on carbon based energy, reduced demand for consumer goods) will actually slow growth and put more people out of work.

Chas
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2010, 01:41 PM
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Zeke Zeke is offline
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If we built new ships for ourselves aren't we just redistributing income with no long term gain? (unless we use them to seize the wealth of another country)
Uh, I don't want to be the one, but isn't that the point of our Bush-era Imperialism?
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  #18  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:56 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Hate to say it, but Shrub just wasn't cut out to be an imperialist. He did it all wrong.

Chas
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2010, 12:56 AM
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We're still broke.

Chas

And we will remain broke until we get serious about investing in our own industries and people.

Dave
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  #20  
Old 03-31-2010, 12:58 AM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Yes, but his point was that if we used the money as capital investment it could both stimulate the economy immediately and provide and on going revenue source that would more than pay for itself. To my mind, a smart move when 18% of working folks ain't workin'.
That's right, That is exactly the point I seek to make.

Dave
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