An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by bobabode

I'm in. I'll buy the first 'un, Modelo Negro OK?

As my black friends would say, why's it gotta be black? Cheers.

Pete

[VanishingPoi]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

It's not a particularly complicated point is it. And it was L. Ron Hubbard's truth. So what? Because Miko is a Jew his truth means anything more than Bibi's truth, or anybody else's truth?

Maybe we should all be touting Allen West's truth about poor black people because Allen West is an honest American black man.

What is L Ron Hubbards truth as you see it? What is your truth?

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

And above all what he says is the "Truth" because?

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

It's not a particularly complicated point is it. And it was L. Ron Hubbard's truth. So what? Because Miko is a Jew his truth means anything more than Bibi's truth, or anybody else's truth?

Maybe we should all be touting Allen West's truth about poor black people because Allen West is an honest American black man.

To tell the truth I like your post because it's the truth.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by VanishingPoi

I don't see your point. I never said it was the truth (but I do tend to agree), I said it was His truth.

Incorrect and not truthful, behold your title to this thread and the reasoning behind my first comment.


An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel

[Rajoo]

Here is an opposing view.

Earlier today the Times of Israel published the article “When Genocide is Permissible” by Yochanan Gordon. They have since taken it down but we are republishing it here as representative of part of the discourse in the American Jewish community. According to Gordon’s bio at the Times of Israel his father is the founder of The Five Towns Jewish Times in Nassau County, NY which is “committed to showing the best of our Orthodox Jewish community, while reflecting reality.” The article is still posted there.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/yochan...rmissible.html

[HarmanKardon]

Gordon's twitter account has been deleted - very interesting!

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

Here is an opposing view.

Earlier today the Times of Israel published the article “When Genocide is Permissible” by Yochanan Gordon. They have since taken it down but we are republishing it here as representative of part of the discourse in the American Jewish community. According to Gordon’s bio at the Times of Israel his father is the founder of The Five Towns Jewish Times in Nassau County, NY which is “committed to showing the best of our Orthodox Jewish community, while reflecting reality.” The article is still posted there.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/yochan...rmissible.html

Gordon's argument is based on premises widely believed and shared by Israelis and their apologists. These include, quoting Gordon's piece:

1. "We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people."

2. "...falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they [Gazans] are and that will never change."

3. "...anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian."

This aim of Hamas claimed in point 1. is taken as absolute, unalterable, and unquestionable. It likewise is treated as an immediate threat, despite Hamas's utter inability to carry out such an aim. The ideas that Hamas might have other aims as well, that such other aims might conflict with the annihilation aim and mitigate it, that the individuals who are collectively called Hamas all have individual motivations and values that all vary, or that such aims might vary under varying times and circumstances, are all rejected.

The reason for the rejection of all question of the annihilation aim, and much else, can be seen in point 2. It is believed that the Gazan enemy is unlike other human beings. While most people are only dishonest sometimes and can indeed change, the Gazans are believed to be unalterably corrupt in their nature. So anything said by Gazans can be disregarded, if it conflicts with one's own beliefs. One may assume they are lying. Likewise, it is obviously useless to negotiate with them in any sense, since they will lie and they will not change. Point 2. asserts nothing less than the belief that the Gazans are not really human, but a special, evil breed of humanoid, unlike one's own acquaintances or any other group of people on the planet.

Point 3. is the collective guilt belief, and it follows easily from points one and two. First of all, all Gazans are guilty of thoughtcrime, since they all believe in the annihilation aim and are all corrupt in their nature. But further, any Gazan who by some inconceivable chance escapes guilt on the first counts is still guilty, since it is their individual responsibility to stop the armed forces of Hamas from carrying out operations in their vicinity.

That the three points are bigoted claptrap is self-evident. But if one does believe them, they logically and immediately lead to when Gordon goes--to justification of genocide. And while most apologists for the Gazan Punitive Expedition shrink back from stating this conclusion explicitly and boldly, most will indeed, explicitly, make arguments equivalent to the three points.

[piece-itpete]

#1 is correct. Hamas wouldn't stop if settlements pulled out for the West Bank - they want Israel gone and make no bones about it.

Here's another take from inside Hamas. The left has some interesting bedfellows.

"......

“Hamas does not care about the lives of Palestinians, or the lives of Israelis, or Americans; they don’t care about their own lives,” Yousef told CNN in a recent interview. “They consider dying for their ideology a way of worship.”

........."

http://nypost.com/2014/07/30/israel-...-founders-son/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

#1 is correct. Hamas wouldn't stop if settlements pulled out for the West Bank - they want Israel gone and make no bones about it.

Pete

Of course they do. Why wouldn't they?

Israel SHOULD go and good riddance to it.

Dave

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Israel SHOULD go and good riddance to it.

Dave

Hey Dave! Remember the LA riots after the acquittal of the cops who beat the spit out of Rodney? I'm sure you do. But do ya remember that vicious motherfucker Damian "Football" Williams who caved in the side of trucker Reginald Denny's head with a brick? I have a point to make if you'll bear with me a minute.

So a week or so later, they track down Football and former police chief Daryl Gates who's career was by that time completely ruined, figures he's gonna get some pub he needs by personally arresting Football. It was pretty uneventful with exception of the brief exchange between Football and Gates just prior to tossing Football into the patrol car.

Football, "You're goin' Gates, you're goin'!!!"
Gates, "Yeah...yeah Football, I'm goin', but you're goin' first."

There's a whole list of countries that should go Dave, and most of them...including this one (if we're gonna honestly consider histories of oppression and total body count of innocent civilians), should be going first.