Corporate America has replaced Democracy

[noonereal]

And folks are happy to tea bag for them.

They realy are the Corporate America's bitches, in everyway.

I think it's time we took our country back.

[HatchetJack]

Right, we should shut the evil bastards down. Stop the electric power plants,
flip the switch. Cut the gas pumps off, blockade the Mcdonalds. Close down
the malls. Free all the people from working against their will. We could spend
more time with our families foraging for food and shelter. We could also fire
all the polititians since we would not have the problem of what to do with
their money since they no longer make any.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

Right, we should shut the evil bastards down. Stop the electric power plants,
flip the switch. Cut the gas pumps off, blockade the Mcdonalds. Close down
the malls. Free all the people from working against their will. We could spend
more time with our families foraging for food and shelter. We could also fire
all the polititians since we would not have the problem of what to do with
their money since they no longer make any.

Sounds like a lot of fun but there's a simpler way: public funding of elections. The mechanism for corporate control of government is money, chiefly in the form of campaign contributions. If we take that out of the equation we have a chance of reforming the government. If we don't... we don't.

John

[Kamakiri]

Originally Posted by noonereal

And folks are happy to tea bag for them.

They realy are the Corporate America's bitches, in everyway.

I think it's time we took our country back.

Might as well fly a hot air balloon to Mars or drink the Atlantic Ocean dry with a straw.

The only way something like that's going to happen is a major surge of nationalism that would be caused by an extreme act of terrorism caused by the government. Back on 9/11, a bunch of us here at work said that if there were ground forces coming to NYC from some enemy, we'd all load up militia style in the backs of pickup trucks, bring our rifles, and head East.

If Madoff couldn't piss off one person in America enough to cause his own assassination, no grandiose idea of change will cause anyone to revolt beyond podiums such as this one.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Kamakiri

Might as well fly a hot air balloon to Mars or drink the Atlantic Ocean dry with a straw.

The only way something like that's going to happen is a major surge of nationalism that would be caused by an extreme act of terrorism caused by the government. Back on 9/11, a bunch of us here at work said that if there were ground forces coming to NYC from some enemy, we'd all load up militia style in the backs of pickup trucks, bring our rifles, and head East.

If Madoff couldn't piss off one person in America enough to cause his own assassination, no grandiose idea of change will cause anyone to revolt beyond podiums such as this one.

Pretty darned grizzly scenarios. Fortunately, it doesn't always require a violent response to effect great social change. We did it in the New Deal when runaway greed took down the economy. Unfortunately, the Right Wing has been gradually rolling back the New Deal ever since and that's why we're in the mess we're in.

In the Soviet Union and several Warsaw Pact countries violence was tried from time to time without success. When change did come it was through non-violence.

John

[Kamakiri]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Pretty darned grizzly scenarios. Fortunately, it doesn't always require a violent response to effect great social change. We did it in the New Deal when runaway greed took down the economy. Unfortunately, the Right Wing has been gradually rolling back the New Deal ever since and that's why we're in the mess we're in.

Spoken like a true Democrat

First, the United States is NOT a democracy, it is a Republic.

Second, the New Deal did NOT spend us into prosperity. Read up:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3357

It was WWII that pulled us out of the depression, not FDR.

There is so much deflation in our economy now, just like then, that there really isn't much room for too much more deflation so the only other way for assets to go is inflation. Interest rates are at an all time low and can't go further down. At some point in the future, rates will go up and money will be worth a lot less. Add to that the amount of money supply added to the Obama "float" and you have liquidation of currency on a massive scale.

Inflation is the ONLY way this country will be able to pay back the HUGE sums of money it owes.

Loans? Borrow 100k now and buy 100k in assets that appreciate, pay the 100k back later will be = to ~50k in real cash. The reversal of that is 100k in the bank will buy 50K worth of assets in the future. So, at least the housing market will improve.

Underwater on your house now? Inflation will take care of that, but the real kicker is in order for that to work rates will have to stay low. If someone can only afford a 1k a month house payment and rates go up then housing prices must decrease or income levels need to increase to make a payment greater than 1k. Nothing really changes except the money supply. When the money supply increases prices decrease as long as interest rates stay low or vise versa. Where do you go lower than 0%? The banks will have to make their money from the financially disavantaged BECAUSE of this mess in the first place, in the form of exorbitant interest rates and fees. The banks make at least half of their money there now.

If the government passes too much reform on that, watch thousands of banks fold up in 2010, which the FDIC can't afford as they're taxed to the limits now. So what do we do? Print more money, and eventually the US dollar ends up being produced by Scott and comes 1000 sheets per roll.

OR

There will be a huge war or civil unrest that will solve many problems.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Kamakiri

Might as well fly a hot air balloon to Mars or drink the Atlantic Ocean dry with a straw.

The only way something like that's going to happen is a major surge of nationalism that would be caused by an extreme act of terrorism caused by the government. Back on 9/11, a bunch of us here at work said that if there were ground forces coming to NYC from some enemy, we'd all load up militia style in the backs of pickup trucks, bring our rifles, and head East.

If Madoff couldn't piss off one person in America enough to cause his own assassination, no grandiose idea of change will cause anyone to revolt beyond podiums such as this one.

Yes you are correct. Folks don't revolt in earnest unless they are hungry or their lives are threatened.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Kamakiri

Spoken like a true Democrat

And?

First, the United States is NOT a democracy, it is a Republic.

Yes, a democratic republic. What's your point?

Second, the New Deal did NOT spend us into prosperity. Read up:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3357

It was WWII that pulled us out of the depression, not FDR.

I'm familiar with the argument. I'm also familiar with the Cato Institute. I don't have a lot of use for libertarian or Randian objectivist thinking.

The truth is both the New Deal and WWII pulled us out of the Great Depression. We were pretty well on our way to recovery, thanks to the New Deal. The war economy did help some because it increased our industrial capacity but making bombs and tanks doesn't really do much for consumer spending.

Of course, none of this has the slightest thing to do with my original response to your post.

There is so much deflation in our economy now, just like then, that there really isn't much room for too much more deflation so the only other way for assets to go is inflation. Interest rates are at an all time low and can't go further down. At some point in the future, rates will go up and money will be worth a lot less. Add to that the amount of money supply added to the Obama "float" and you have liquidation of currency on a massive scale.

I could be mistaken, but I think we're still in a period of low inflation, not deflation. As for interest rates, bank-to-bank rates are at historic lows but not consumer rates. In any case, the banks aren't lending so the rates are irrelevant.

Inflation is the ONLY way this country will be able to pay back the HUGE sums of money it owes.

Only if the dollar stays as the official reserve currency and that may well change. That would make it harder to repay the debt, a little like Germany in the '20s.

Loans? Borrow 100k now and buy 100k in assets that appreciate, pay the 100k back later will be = to ~50k in real cash. The reversal of that is 100k in the bank will buy 50K worth of assets in the future. So, at least the housing market will improve.

If someone will lend it to you. Right now housing prices, those that are actually selling, are depressed.

If the government passes too much reform on that, watch thousands of banks fold up in 2010, which the FDIC can't afford as they're taxed to the limits now. So what do we do? Print more money, and eventually the US dollar ends up being produced by Scott and comes 1000 sheets per roll.

There's no such thing as too much reform.

Of course, too much regulation could hurt the banking industry but you need to remember that it was regulation which saved the banking industry in the wake of the Depression and deregulation, combined with lax oversight, that caused the current crisis.

But, again, none of this has anything to do with my earlier post.

OR

There will be a huge war or civil unrest that will solve many problems.

You keep bringing that up. It would seem to be your preferred solution.

John

[merrylander]

Now if we can only shut down the Senate and do away with them entirely.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Boreas

There's no such thing as too much reform.



John

I think Hitler said that very thing. No I am not comparing Obama to him. I am comparing our hypocritical political parties.

There will never be true reform in this country because it would mean outing every single politician from the top to the bottom. They are all as whack as a three dollar bill.