Buchanans' macro prediction for 2011:

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by DarkDefender

Yes the Germans may have enough to bail them out, but Frau Merkl would be removed from office being dragged behind a fleet of VWs. Spain has been struggling for some time and is continuing to get worse. If they are unable to restructure their debt, they will be falling on extremely hard times. Italy is also not that far from falling deep into trouble.
It will be placed squarely upon the Germans and French to keep the Euro zone afloat.
I do think that they will be able to hold it off for some time, and as it has been discussed earlier, they have too much invested in the Euro ideal. That being said, I imagine a majority of Germans would support a move back to the Mark, even though at this point it's really not possible.

And in a way, it should. It's their own darn fault the whole EU got forced on Europe to begin with.

I happed to see a bit on this on Germany's news yesterday, they interviewed people on the street - even the reluctant ones believed the Euro was there to stay.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

And in a way, it should. It's their own darn fault the whole EU got forced on Europe to begin with.

I happed to see a bit on this on Germany's news yesterday, they interviewed people on the street - even the reluctant ones believed the Euro was there to stay.

Pete

How do people "force" something upon themselves? Sure, you could say the leaders forced it upon the people. But, if the people stood idly by and took no action, is that not a form of passive consent?

BTW, I don't think the formation of the EU poses any immediate military threat. But, I do certainly think it creates a formidable powerhouse politically and economically. One that more than rivals us. (Perhaps not at present, but once the economy straightens out----Oh, yeah.) And, I believe it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Europe has a more domineering government than us (for now), at least imo ...

That passive consent is dangerous. Although I largely agree.

The EU a military threat? They've been so generally passive it's rarely crossed my mind. But good point, they are a bigger economy than the US, and things do change over time. The EU and the Euro were conceived as a way to keep Germany and France from doing their historical dance, after all.

Pete

[mossbacked]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Beside which who would the Germans sell all those VWs and BMWs to?

Well that's easy; all of those newly democratized, "free" Egyptians.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by mossbacked

Well that's easy; all of those newly democratized, "free" Egyptians.

We shall see how it all works out, but Egypt demonstrates what so many here have forgotten. You do not "give" people democracy, they have to "take" it for themselves. We do a disservice to those who did "take" democracy here simply because we are letting the political right whittle it away.

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

How do people "force" something upon themselves? Sure, you could say the leaders forced it upon the people. But, if the people stood idly by and took no action, is that not a form of passive consent?

BTW, I don't think the formation of the EU poses any immediate military threat. But, I do certainly think it creates a formidable powerhouse politically and economically. One that more than rivals us. (Perhaps not at present, but once the economy straightens out----Oh, yeah.) And, I believe it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Dave

But, I do certainly think it creates a formidable powerhouse politically and economically.

I don't think so, at least not yet. The thing is that uniting peoples that have only one thing in common; their mutual dislike of each other can usually only be done by facing a common enemy. "Together we stand, divided we fall" and all that jazz. As soon as the common enemy has gone away it's back to business as usual. The Common Market? A lot of people here think its primary purpose was to break, or at least greatly weaken the British Commonwealth.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Europe has a more domineering government than us (for now), at least imo ...

That passive consent is dangerous. Although I largely agree.

The EU a military threat? They've been so generally passive it's rarely crossed my mind. But good point, they are a bigger economy than the US, and things do change over time. The EU and the Euro were conceived as a way to keep Germany and France from doing their historical dance, after all.

Pete

i agree, we have a lot to learn from europe

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by noonereal

i agree, we have a lot to learn from europe

I'll agree with you there. I just don't think we will reach the same conclusions.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by JJIII

I'll agree with you there. I just don't think we will reach the same conclusions.

as with slavery, women's voting, national healthcare we eventually follow Europe, it just takes so long because of the right wing problem we have

[preferred u]

[QUOTE=BlueStreak;49201]How do people "force" something upon themselves? Sure, you could say the leaders forced it upon the people. But, if the people stood idly by and took no action, is that not a form of passive consent?

BTW, I don't think the formation of the EU poses any immediate military threat. But, I do certainly think it creates a formidable powerhouse politically and economically. One that more than rivals us.

Yes that was the whole idea behind the E.U.