US Captures Ringleader In Benghazi

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

As difficult as pointing out where I said torture.

Pete

Nah, it was 427 who was publicly calling for torture. You just called for interrogation, followed by summary execution.

So you're fine with just shooting non-citizens if we want. Now will you answer a question? Are you also fine with torturing them first?

And if not, why not?

[piece-itpete]

As far as shooting people it would be easy to say ask your leader.

The short answer is of course you can shoot people, if we're warring. I'd say we are.

I also have no problem with military tribunals. Hell FDR killed spies on American soil using them. We owe these people nothing.

Torture is a tough one. No I am not for officially sanctioned 'torture'. That said I don't have the slightest problem with a bad guy being roughed up.

It's tough because of the definition. Waterboarding sure seems like torture to me, although we do it to our own troops. But sleep deprivation? Again, it IS (anyone who's read The Gulag Archipelago would agree imo), but does that mean it can't be used? Consider the left's affinity for European 'morality'. There is a big push there to consider solitary confinement torture! What are supposed to do with these guys, give them (gasp!) cold coffee? Fart in their general direction?

Different topic than trying this guy in our court though.

Pete

[donquixote99]

Ah, clarification. Not summary execution, necessarily. Execution after judgement by a military tribunal. That may or may not be different....

Still, you go on to say 'we owe these guys nothing.' That's the whole thing I'm arguing about. I say we owe them something, because we should respect human rights.

And if you say there are no human rights, you're like the idiot who said "There's no rules in a knife fight!"

[djv8ga]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

As far as shooting people it would be easy to say ask your leader.

The short answer is of course you can shoot people, if we're warring. I'd say we are.

I also have no problem with military tribunals. Hell FDR killed spies on American soil using them. We owe these people nothing.

Torture is a tough one. No I am not for officially sanctioned 'torture'. That said I don't have the slightest problem with a bad guy being roughed up.

It's tough because of the definition. Waterboarding sure seems like torture to me, although we do it to our own troops. But sleep deprivation? Again, it IS (anyone who's read The Gulag Archipelago would agree imo), but does that mean it can't be used? Consider the left's affinity for European 'morality'. There is a big push there to consider solitary confinement torture! What are supposed to do with these guys, give them (gasp!) cold coffee? Fart in their general direction?

Different topic than trying this guy in our court though.

Pete

All this talk about human rights yet Obama plays God and decides which lives to snuff out with drones or respect with a U.S. trial.

[donquixote99]

I'm on record as saying hits by drone (as opposed to drone participation in combat) should not be ordered without general enabling legislation, and specific judicial review in each case. Get all three branches on board.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

All this talk about human rights yet Obama plays God and decides which lives to snuff out with drones or respect with a U.S. trial.

No, no. He's not doing anything. Taking a nap, according to John Boehner. In between naps he kills terrorists, catches the guy responsible for Benghazi, and kills Bin Laden. All of which, somehow, is bad, according to the people who got thousands of Americans killed in needless wars and made a bad situation in Iraq an absolute nightmare. But it's Obama's fault. Clearly.

[djv8ga]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

No, no. He's not doing anything. Taking a nap, according to John Boehner. In between naps he kills terrorists, catches the guy responsible for Benghazi, and kills Bin Laden. All of which, somehow, is bad, according to the people who got thousands of Americans killed in needless wars and made a bad situation in Iraq an absolute nightmare. But it's Obama's fault. Clearly.

I'm just not buying the "Human Rights" B.S. One day it's a war, the next day it isn't. All too convenient IMO.

[Fast_Eddie]

Yeah, there's some stuff there that makes me uncomfortable too. But I do find it ironic that the people responsible for full-on "kill everybody" wars, and torture, all of a sudden get bent out of shape about offing some random bad guy with a drone. I mean *I* don't like it, but I didn't like the other stuff either. At least I'm consistent.

[djv8ga]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Yeah, there's some stuff there that makes me uncomfortable too. But I do find it ironic that the people responsible for full-on "kill everybody" wars, and torture, all of a sudden get bent out of shape about offing some random bad guy with a drone. I mean *I* don't like it, but I didn't like the other stuff either. At least I'm consistent.

I agree.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Torture is a tough one. No I am not for officially sanctioned 'torture'. That said I don't have the slightest problem with a bad guy being roughed up.

You're the perfect master of almost definitive statements.

It's not a tough one at all. You used the term "bad guy"...well Pete, you want to blur the lines between who the good guys and the bad guys are real quick? Be ambivalent about torture, or whatever convenient term you can think up to make yourself feel better about it.