Iraq unravels!

[whell]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

So what?

It's more expensive to drive than to ride a bike. It's more expensive to jail drug addicts than treat them. It's more expensive to fly than to take a bus. It's more expensive to continue with health care that isn't single payer. It's more expensive to criminalize drugs. It's more expensive to treat sickness than it is to promote health. It's more expensive to subsidize oil companies than it is to drive electric cars. It's more expensive to inspect our food and make sure it's not contaminated. It's more expensive to drink wine than beer.

Not everything is decided by the bottom line. This is America, not Ethiopia. Let's go for the good stuff, not the cheapest thing on the menu.

And when you say "more expensive" what do you mean? At what cost? Over what time frame? Solar and wind have start up costs, but then they are damned cheap. Oil is just spending.

Smart people invest. Poor people spend.

Well, since wind projects are mostly subsidized federally, we're spending.

In Michigan, since we have cloud cover most of the winter, alternative energy means wind energy, not solar. Wind farms are sprouting up in the state - damned eyesores IMHO especially since they need to be close to lakefronts.

Wind power gets bloody complicated. Unlike a convention power plant that can produce a predictable power output, wind turbines can only produce when the wind is blowing. Since the wind doesn't blow all the time, wind turbines are at best a supplement to conventional plants. Also, since they serve a supplemental purpose - and since the energy they produce can't be stored - they only power the grid during Peak demand, not all the time. That's what drives up the cost.

[whell]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

WTF is stopping anybody from going solar. Buy the gear and install it...no big deal.
I went solar for my well without the government helping me.

Michigan's appreciable cloud cover in the cold weather months precludes wide spread use of solar around here.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by whell

Well, since wind projects are mostly subsidized federally, we're spending.

In Michigan, since we have cloud cover most of the winter, alternative energy means wind energy, not solar. Wind farms are sprouting up in the state - damned eyesores IMHO especially since they need to be close to lakefronts.

Wind power gets bloody complicated. Unlike a convention power plant that can produce a predictable power output, wind turbines can only produce when the wind is blowing. Since the wind doesn't blow all the time, wind turbines are at best a supplement to conventional plants. Also, since they serve a supplemental purpose - and since the energy they produce can't be stored - they only power the grid during Peak demand, not all the time. That's what drives up the cost.

A crucial factor in storage is solved by going to electric vehicles. Your argument is soooo last century.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by whell

Michigan's appreciable cloud cover in the cold weather months precludes wide spread use of solar around here.

How does Germany do it? Aren't they at the same latitude, for the most part?

[Fast_Eddie]

Michigan Solar Solutions

http://michigansolarsolutions.com/

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Michigan Solar Solutions

http://michigansolarsolutions.com/

Thanks Eddie. You just saved me from looking this up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...levels-of-sun/

[whell]

Originally Posted by bobabode

How does Germany do it? Aren't they at the same latitude, for the most part?

It didn't work out so well in Germany.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ubsidies_.html

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by whell

It didn't work out so well in Germany.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ubsidies_.html

I'll read more but it seems that they are dialing back subsidies and that is a natural thing to do, diminishing returns applies here. Your comment implies a failure which couldn't be further from the truth.

[djv8ga]

Originally Posted by bobabode

There's no one buying a system for you, least of all big gubmint. It's subsidies and small rebates such as 'Energy Star' in electrical appliances.

Did you buy your well system new? Even if you didn't, you benefited from subsidies. You're not thinking this through DJ.

There's nothing to think through. I bought it and installed it except for dropping in the pump. Everything is new. I bought the panels from a solar contractor who always buys an extra pallet of panels when doing large commercial jobs & sells them on craigslist. He's able to cover the freight costs that way. I bought the T.O.P. mount from Az. Wind & Solar & the pump from Solar City. I need a bigger tank, but I will find a used one.

I didn't get any subsidies.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

There's nothing to think through. I bought it and installed it except for dropping in the pump. Everything is new. I bought the panels from a solar contractor who always buys an extra pallet of panels when doing large commercial jobs & sells them on craigslist. He's able to cover the freight costs that way. I bought the T.O.P. mount from Az. Wind & Solar & the pump from Solar City. I need a bigger tank, but I will find a used one.

I didn't get any subsidies.

This is a solar system to power a pump to pump ground water into a tank? How do you store the power you generate or is it connected to the grid?
Just a curious engineer.