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  #21  
Old 12-05-2013, 10:31 PM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I'll bet the greedy bastards even have the audacity to pay their PROPERTY TAXES!!!

And if we let 'em get away with that, I'll bet they even try to turn a PROFIT!!!

Chas
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Originally Posted by Wasillaguy View Post
But they're wolves, and must be stopped!
Unless they're actually wolves, then they must be protected!
Unless the carcass they're chewing on is Fido, then they must be stopped!
Unless its the neighbor's dog that barks too much, then let those wolves eat it!
What in the hell are you two talking about?

Dave
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  #22  
Old 12-05-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
What in the hell are you two talking about?

Dave
Wolves and fleas? Must be some apocalyptic vision of what's to come. I dunno...none of it makes much sense to me. Fatalism, perhaps?
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
What in the hell are you two talking about?

Dave
Maybe their own traditions for celebrating Festivus?
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:24 AM
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Maybe their own traditions for celebrating Festivus?
I made a comment about land speculation in the Detroit area and their having a ball with it, because I (foolishly) used the term "Wolves". Actually, what I think they're are doing makes sense. It's so cheap, they really have little to lose. The properties are already abandoned and dilapidated, nobody is being put out, so who cares?

DJ mentioned it first and he's right. If I lived closer, I'd consider it myself.

Dave
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:43 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
I made a comment about land speculation in the Detroit area and their having a ball with it, because I (foolishly) used the term "Wolves". Actually, what I think they're are doing makes sense. It's so cheap, they really have little to lose. The properties are already abandoned and dilapidated, nobody is being put out, so who cares?

DJ mentioned it first and he's right. If I lived closer, I'd consider it myself.

Dave
I don't know if you could give it to me.

First you have to clear it, then mow it, and pay taxes on it. If you tried to build on it, your materials would be stolen as fast as they were delivered.

Reminds me of free advice...it's generally worth what it costs. In this instance I'd rather have free advice, it doesn't come with responsibility.

Chas
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  #26  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:46 AM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by bobabode View Post
At least the Red Wings will have a new venue, on the taxpayers backs.
Just to be clear, I'm a huge Red Wings fan. But I'm not a fan of taxpayers footing the bill for new stadiums. However, just to be clear, Olympia Development, which is part of the Ilitch family's set of businesses that includes Little Caesars Pizza and the Detroit Tigers, will be putting over $365 MM into the project.

Also, its not just about a new stadium in this case. The city owns the current arena where the Red Wings play, Joe Louis Arena, and its a piece of crap compared to other venues. The site of the arena is also too far away from what is becoming a significant entertainment "district" within the city that includes Greektown, the casinos, Comerica Park, Ford Field, and numerous restaurants and shops. So, the city will also get to re-purpose the site that Joe Louis Arena sits on (which is right on the waterfront by the way), which will likely free up working capital and, if the property is sold, generate new revenue.

Further, the funds that Olympia Development is putting up is not just for the new arena. Its becoming a redevelopment project. From Crains:

"The hockey arena, which would be finished by 2017 and replace city-owned Joe Louis Arena, is part of a wider $650 million plan to create a 45-acre district that includes retail, residential, office and restaurant space on the venue site, located west of Woodward Avenue and I-75.

The 18,000-seat arena would have 1,200 premium seats, an attached 500-space parking garage and 10,000 square feet of retail space anchored by a Red Wings merchandise store, restaurants and other retail, according to the project plan.

Possible ancillary developments and infrastructure work the DDA and Olympia said are possible on the site include:
• An elevated pedestrian bridge over the Fisher Freeway, at Park or Clifford avenues.
• Widening the Woodward Avenue bridge over the Fisher Freeway.
• A 140,000-square-foot office and retail development at Woodward Avenue and Sproat Street.
• 25,000-square-foot office and retail project along Woodward.
• A hotel with 20,000 square feet of retail space.
• Several parking structures that would have ground-floor retail space.
• Renovation of the Detroit Life Building, Blenheim Building and 1922 Cass for retail, residential and office space.
• Surface parking lots.
• Streetscape projects."

One last point that is not insignificant: the Ilitch family are lifetime Detroiters. They were investing in Detroit when no one else would. They moved their company's headquarters into the city when everyone else was moving out. They bought and rehabilitated the Detroit Tigers franchise. They've purchased and rehabilitated a long stretch of Woodward Avenue which includes the Fox Theater, an absolutely stunning facility.

So, I'd suggest that, in this case, the old saw of "building an arena on the backs of the taxpayers" doesn't fit. The Ilitch family has established a long track record of investing in the city, both on their own and in partnership with City Hall. In this case, I'd suggest we get out of their way and let them continue to do what they do best, and the city will continue to accrue the benefits of their work in investments in the city.
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:49 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Maybe their own traditions for celebrating Festivus?
Thanks for not showing our hand.

I know full well that you have a "Dirty Capitalist Pig" decoder ring too.

Chas
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:49 AM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I don't know if you could give it to me.

First you have to clear it, then mow it, and pay taxes on it. If you tried to build on it, your materials would be stolen as fast as they were delivered.

Reminds me of free advice...it's generally worth what it costs. In this instance I'd rather have free advice, it doesn't come with responsibility.

Chas
Long view, Chas. I know it's a stretch in todays "quick buck" mentality, but believe it or not, some people still think in the long term. They're up there buying entire neighborhoods for a few thousand bucks, clearing it and leaving it sit. How much can the tax be on something that is worthless? If or when the value rises, it's usually because the economy is improving. That's when you build and sell.

I'm not the total Commie you think I am.

Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 12-06-2013 at 07:55 AM.
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2013, 07:58 AM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Thanks for not showing our hand.

I know full well that you have a "Dirty Capitalist Pig" decoder ring too.

Chas
These days, I keep it safe in the jewelry box next to my "Free Market Fascist" ring.
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2013, 08:00 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
Long view, Chas. I know it's a stretch in todays "quick buck" mentality, but believe it or not, some people still think in the long term. They're up there buying entire neighborhoods for a few thousand bucks, clearing it and leaving it sit. How much can the tax be on something that is worthless? If or when the value rises, it's usually because the economy is improving. That's when you build and sell.

I'm not the total Commie you think I am.

Dave
The costs of ownership isn't figured into the long term view?

Chas
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