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05-03-2022, 06:30 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Derby City U.S.A.
Posts: 8,213
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Roe V Wade history?
Looks like it will happen. The leaked draft puts a fine point on the takeover feared yet hoping would not happen.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/02/polit...urt/index.html
This argument by the "Christian" or "Religious" has always bothered me. About life and the beginning there of. I beg to ask, do they in reality actually believe in a after life at all. Secretly have doubts and seek to reinforce or bolster this failing by their opposition.
For if they believed in a afterlife a heaven and a all powerful. Then just what do they think would happen. The child goes to heaven skipping the suffering on earth, goes into another body....
Now it is easier to understand their arguments if this is it, one and done. No afterlife to go to.
As to my personal thoughts. Like to think if faced with the decision would choose life over an abortion. As a male never had the fears of getting pregnant or a partner with a unwanted one.
Sad how the same ones who are pushing so hard on the abortion issues also fight just as hard for gun rights....
In all these years of mine one of the life lessons have learned. Religion and hypocrisy are the two sides of the same coin.
Last edited by Oerets; 05-03-2022 at 01:56 PM.
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05-03-2022, 07:06 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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You ask a deep question for which I have no answer, Barney.
I wonder how they will react once all of these unwanted babies hit the already overburdened adoption market?
Will all these Bible toting do-gooders adopt them all? I seriously doubt it.
Will they support building orphanages to care for them? Only if you can show them a way to get rich off of it.
My father once said to me; "If you want to know why a previous generation changed they way we do something, change it back. I'm guessing you won't like what happens."
Interesting times ahead.
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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05-03-2022, 08:30 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,172
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Bluestreak, its not just the unwanted babies who will suffer, but, also the women who resort to dangerous alternatives. Remember the coat hanger from years past? And, then, I suspect the medical procedure known as a D&C will once again become popular as a way to "correct one's monthly period".
And, the same people who say the government can't tell them what to do with their bodies when it comes to vaccines are the same ones who support the government telling us what we can and can not do with our bodies when it comes to abortion. Go figure.
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05-04-2022, 11:53 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbara
Bluestreak, its not just the unwanted babies who will suffer, but, also the women who resort to dangerous alternatives. Remember the coat hanger from years past? And, then, I suspect the medical procedure known as a D&C will once again become popular as a way to "correct one's monthly period".
And, the same people who say the government can't tell them what to do with their bodies when it comes to vaccines are the same ones who support the government telling us what we can and can not do with our bodies when it comes to abortion. Go figure.
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That is absolutely and tragically correct.
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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05-03-2022, 09:19 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 6,123
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The Religious Reich see abortion as a holy abomination and getting it banned will get them a free pass through the Holy Gates. They care about the fetus right up until it's born. The Rethuglicans see supporting the banning of abortions as a way to harness the voting power of the so-called holy Christians. Never mind when the majority of Americans are in favor of allowing abortions to those who want them, the Repubs don't give a rat's ass about the wishes of the majority or majority rule.
Your body your choice as long as it's what we want you to choose.
__________________
Joe whupped him before and he'll do it once more.
BIDEN/HARRIS IN 2024
Last edited by RickeyM; 05-03-2022 at 09:21 AM.
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05-03-2022, 10:54 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickeyM
The Religious Reich see abortion as a holy abomination and getting it banned will get them a free pass through the Holy Gates. They care about the fetus right up until it's born. The Rethuglicans see supporting the banning of abortions as a way to harness the voting power of the so-called holy Christians. Never mind when the majority of Americans are in favor of allowing abortions to those who want them, the Repubs don't give a rat's ass about the wishes of the majority or majority rule.
Your body your choice as long as it's what we want you to choose.
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1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.
3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.
Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.
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05-04-2022, 11:50 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.
3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.
Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.
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All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Last edited by BlueStreak; 05-04-2022 at 11:55 AM.
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05-04-2022, 05:21 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: South Central KY
Posts: 1,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.
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Demonizing those that disagree with you is not the high road, sir.
__________________
“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they’ve been fooled”
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05-04-2022, 05:32 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.
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You're confusing conservative with libertarian. They are fellow-travellers, but different. Conservatives are the God and Country people, so they will do things for God and Country. Libertarians are the radical individualists, deluded like housecats into thinking they are like gods, understanding nothing of the community that sustains them. But they and conservatives have common interest in fighting liberal proposals to take care of the public welfare. For conservatives, it's because 'the public' includes lots of people they don't like; for libertarians, it's because the public includes people besides themselves.
This discussion applies as the subjects are motivated by ideology; the professional politicians of course are apt to be faking it for votes.
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05-04-2022, 05:48 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: South Central KY
Posts: 1,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.
3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.
Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.
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That is very well said sir, and I think you've hit the issue right between the eyes.
I'll add one thing here: This decision is not about whether abortion should be legal or not. It's about what the constitution says and what rights can be claimed to be implied. And the argument is pretty strong that the "right" to an abortion on demand is not a protected right and should be left up to the individual states. That's what the actual leaked decision argues - and quite convincingly.
I'm not sure a lot of people even want to read the details in the leaked draft.
__________________
“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they’ve been fooled”
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