Humanism has the Answer

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by Not Insane

If there is no divine input, nothing has purpose. A thing can not give itself purpose. It can only believe it can give itself purpose. At the end of the day, if there is no God, no man has purpose and mankind itself has no purpose. You can rape, kill and pillage without consequence other than more powerful people killing or enslaving you for doing it. And you're gonna die no matter what you do anyway. Life is truly and utterly pointless. Giving it some sort of purpose in your mind can keep you sane, but without a creator and purpose, that is only playing games with what is real.

Humanism is a dead end philosophy.

A code of ethics that serves all needn't rely on a religious basis, and might be an improvement for using religion to justify unethical behavior.
For instance;

"The state of nature has a law of nature to govern it, which obliges every one: and reason, which is that law, teaches all mankind, who will but consult it, that being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions… (and) when his own preservation comes not in competition, ought he, as much as he can, to preserve the rest of mankind, and may not, unless it be to do justice on an offender, take away, or impair the life, or what tends to the preservation of the life, the liberty, health, limb, or goods of another."
John Locke

[Oerets]

Thousands of years ago people prayed to a tree, a rock the sun or many gods... with the same passion, fervor and convictions as today. Making the very same arguments and assumptions all these times. Thinking they are the only ones right, to have all of the answers over all other beliefs. Waged wars to eliminate other views contrary to said beliefs.
This all may well be in a attempt to answer the human need to explain the unexplained. To make sense of the senseless.
We will all know the answers to all of our questions someday. Just not able to pass it along.

What needs to be understood. There is a basic truth and justice at the core that we humans should just follow. Not abrogating responsibility or waiting for a savior. If a God gave humans intelligence and free will then use it!

[watsup1000]

there is no divine input, nothing has purpose. A thing can not give itself purpose. It can only believe it can give itself purpose. At the end of the day, if there is no God, no man has purpose and mankind itself has no purpose. You can rape, kill and pillage without consequence other than more powerful people killing or enslaving you for doing it. And you're gonna die no matter what you do anyway. Life is truly and utterly pointless. Giving it some sort of purpose in your mind can keep you sane, but without a creator and purpose, that is only playing games with what is real.

Humanism is a dead end philosophy.


Retort: Again, simply not true. Humanism simply recognizes that "there ain't nobody but us" to come up with the set of ethics that makes human societies most liveable. A "God" is simply not needed. Occam's Razor. The purpose of life is life itself. As Woody Allen once said, "showing up is 90% of life". Once a person is born into the human race, it is then up to the other homo sapiens to educate that person to live in a fruitful and lawful society. No matter how often you "witness" and repeat yourself, Humanism remains the manner in which society has adopted its rules for living since the evolution of the species.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by watsup1000

there is no divine input, nothing has purpose. A thing can not give itself purpose. It can only believe it can give itself purpose. At the end of the day, if there is no God, no man has purpose and mankind itself has no purpose. You can rape, kill and pillage without consequence other than more powerful people killing or enslaving you for doing it. And you're gonna die no matter what you do anyway. Life is truly and utterly pointless. Giving it some sort of purpose in your mind can keep you sane, but without a creator and purpose, that is only playing games with what is real.

Humanism is a dead end philosophy.


Retort: Again, simply not true. Humanism simply recognizes that "there ain't nobody but us" to come up with the set of ethics that makes human societies most liveable. A "God" is simply not needed. Occam's Razor. The purpose of life is life itself. As Woody Allen once said, "showing up is 90% of life". Once a person is born into the human race, it is then up to the other homo sapiens to educate that person to live in a fruitful and lawful society. No matter how often you "witness" and repeat yourself, Humanism remains the manner in which society has adopted its rules for living since the evolution of the species.

I'm drilling into the core belief and its resulting outcome and worldview. If there is no creator, there are literally no rules other than the ones we make up. And they only apply to the person who makes them up and those that person conquers. And even then, they can be chanced at will. And they really have no power other than to extend or end a life that is terminal at conception anyway.

[watsup1000]

I'm trilling into the core belief and its resulting outcome and worldview. If there is no creator, there are literally no rules other than the ones we make up. And they only apply to the person who makes them up and those that person conquers. And even then, they can be chanced at will. And they really have no power other than to extend or end a life that is terminal at conception anyway.


Again, so much wrong Yes, there are no rules other than the ones that we, homo sapiens, make up. That is the very core of Humanism, to find the most ethical manner for civil societies to thrive on a long-term basis. The Constitution of the United States is perhaps the most important Humanist document every written. It codifies the foundation of the nation using HUMANIST concepts. Not once is the "divine" written into it as a basis for its conception.
Humanism has the answers, and without the myths and superstitions underlying religions.

[Oerets]

There in lies the rub.

Some need or require the fear of retribution a reckoning in order to be good.

Then there are those who do good because they prefer to do so, feeling it is right, without the fear.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by Oerets

There in lies the rub.

Some need or require the fear of retribution a reckoning in order to be good.

Then there are those who do good because they prefer to do so, feeling it is right, without the fear.

Actually, the Christian message is not fear of retribution and reckoning, though some would have you believe that. It is quite the opposite. It is your second paragraph. It is even part of the Christian message that that "sense" is in all of us.

https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by watsup1000

I'm trilling into the core belief and its resulting outcome and worldview. If there is no creator, there are literally no rules other than the ones we make up. And they only apply to the person who makes them up and those that person conquers. And even then, they can be chanced at will. And they really have no power other than to extend or end a life that is terminal at conception anyway.


Again, so much wrong Yes, there are no rules other than the ones that we, homo sapiens, make up. That is the very core of Humanism, to find the most ethical manner for civil societies to thrive on a long-term basis. The Constitution of the United States is perhaps the most important Humanist document every written. It codifies the foundation of the nation using HUMANIST concepts. Not once is the "divine" written into it as a basis for its conception.
Humanism has the answers, and without the myths and superstitions underlying religions.

Humanism has answers, true. They are just not "the answer". They are written in sand. Hitler had answers. Pol Pot had answers. And their answers were correct until someone with more power decided they weren't. But until then, if you were within their sphere of power, they were the "right" answers. And theirs were most definitely "humanist" answers.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by Not Insane

Humanism has answers, true. They are just not "the answer". They are written in sand. Hitler had answers. Pol Pot had answers. And their answers were correct until someone with more power decided they weren't. But until then, if you were within their sphere of power, they were the "right" answers. And theirs were most definitely "humanist" answers.

Sans ethics, abusive authoritarianism isn't "humanism" but can be religiously grounded, as is often the case.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Sans ethics, abusive authoritarianism isn't "humanism" but can be religiously grounded, as is often the case.

Sure. Religion is man made. It is one of many tools used to manipulate people. Look at islam today.

But according to humanism, the abusive authoritarian is right, until he's overthrown by someone more powerful (or he dies). In humanism, might quite literally makes right.