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07-23-2011, 08:43 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
It's because "Social Contract" sounds and is, in some measure, collectivist. It rubs their "every man for himself" mentality the wrong way. The "Law of the Jungle" appeals to their base primal instincts and is therefore more compatible with the modern conservative mentality. Baboons don't pool their resources to care for other Baboons that can't keep up with the troupe, they bite and stomp them to death to prevent them from holding the others back. See what I'm sayin'?
Dave
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Excellent point. Take this to the extreme, where we have no "social contact".
Everyman for himself. The ultimate winner has everything, and no one else even exhists. What is the point to being super wealthy or well tto do if there are no other humans to (pick your thoughts - rule over, share with, make jealous, take more from, give to, etc).
Monopoly is a fun game, but in real life it would suck. I win and have everything - no one else has anything.
So being human means being social. Without a person might as well crawl under a rock and live entirely uninterruped for the remainder of their life.
BTW - excellent link and great thread too.
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Instead of a debate, how about a discussion? I want to learn, I don't care about winning.
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07-24-2011, 04:49 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: English Town
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
So, society is not to move forward unless each and every individual gives his or her full consent? How is that even possible? I hear it all of the time, Karl. "Why should I have to comply with that regulation or pay that tax, I never consented to it."
The answer is simple; You will never achieve anything if you have to wait on a unanimous decision from the masses. Heck, half the time it's nearly impossible to do so with a simple majority.
Some just have to deal with it, when they don't get their way. We all face that from time to time. That's just how it is.
Dave
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Dont make the mistake of thinking that, when I am against something, I am for everything else within this system.
It is not my fault that the system that we live in is created in such a way which makes it essential that everyone is coerced.
But lets get past that and get to the fact that this 'social contract' extends far further than it actually needs to. Why should people in Washington or people in London get to tell me how to live my life? If I want to have sex with my brother, for example, I should be able to but instead I have to abide by something written down by people who I do not know and do not care about.
Furthermore, lets not call it by its official name. 'Social contract' is an insult to language and its definition is an insult to reality. Lets not pretend that this is anything more than the states ownership of human beings such as me and you. Lets discuss things frankly and lets use words that suit reality rather than fantasy.
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"They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me."-Nathan Lee, Bedlam.
Last edited by Brother_Karl; 07-24-2011 at 05:54 AM.
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07-24-2011, 05:49 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 3,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
Some question was raised concerning the "Social Contract" that d-ray often refers to. I thought I would post this link to further clarify the meaning of "social contract". I decided to put it in this forum since it seems to encompass all aspects of human social interaction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
Thoughts, opinions?
Dave
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Here is another more comprehensive link to social contract theory:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/soc-cont/
If you like original source material:
Hobbes, Locke, More, and Rousseau are all good entry points; however, to get into the real intricacies Kant and Hume must be read. David Hume is quite accessible, but one often quoted statement regarding Kant is "He speaks through clouds without the benefit of the lightening flash for illumination." If you look at the above link you'll find that feminists and those seeking racial equality have traditionally been in opposition to social contract theory. Rawls' Theory of Justice is also worth reading if you're interested in social contract theory and the accompanying social justice assertions.
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Dear Optimist: Unless life gives you water and sugar too, your lemonade will suck.
Last edited by bhunter; 07-24-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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07-24-2011, 06:57 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Don't need a contract when everybody's getting along, it's when everybody QUITS getting along that you need a contract.
Perhaps the reason why everybody AIN'T getting along so good is that our current social contract is leaving a lot of people holding the shitty end of the stick.
And unlike Socrates, if I sense that the powers that be are using "OUR" social contract to run smooth over my ass, then I consider the contract null and void.
BTW, I've always thought that Geronimo was the greatest American who ever lived. Don't guess he went to school proper, but he had the initiate ability to tell when his social contract was flawed, and he had the courage to do something about it.
Chas
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07-24-2011, 07:02 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Good, so does that mean that we will not see any more of your inane babbling in this thread.
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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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07-24-2011, 07:16 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
Good, so does that mean that we will not see any more of your inane babbling in this thread.
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Rob, you need to be more specific whenever addressing the inane babblers in this thread.
Now if you're referring to me the answer is no.
I'm gonna go on the warpath instead. Just like my hero.
Chas
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07-24-2011, 07:28 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
Rob, you need to be more specific whenever addressing the inane babblers in this thread.
Now if you're referring to me the answer is no.
I'm gonna go on the warpath instead. Just like my hero.
Chas
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Sorry Chas, a bunch of folks hit the send button whil I was typing, my post was aimed at dj.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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07-24-2011, 07:34 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
Sorry Chas, a bunch of folks hit the send button whil I was typing, my post was aimed at dj.
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I figured as much, but I couldn't resist the jab!!!
Well, since my suspicions have been confirmed I'll just skip the warpath and go to work instead.
I need to fulfill my end of the social contract.
Take care,
Chas
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07-24-2011, 07:37 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
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All this talk of coercion puzzles me, I do not feel compelled to drive on one side of the road, rather than down the middle, common sense tells me the latter is suicidal. I do not feel the long arm of goverment in my bedroom, it would get cut off if it tried. The basic rules of society are by and large eminently sensible and where they are not they tend to be ignored. I don't find taxes onerous considering what they provide. I do not feel any need to rant and rave against the government beyond what my vote does. If the majority disagrees with me so be it, one day they will come to their senses.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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07-24-2011, 08:23 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother_Karl
But lets get past that and get to the fact that this 'social contract' extends far further than it actually needs to. Why should people in Washington or people in London get to tell me how to live my life? If I want to have sex with my brother, for example, I should be able to but instead I have to abide by something written down by people who I do not know and do not care about.
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Dude...Your own brother? Seriously, WTF?
Dave
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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