State's Lawsuit Against Healthcare Reform Goes Forward

[whell]

This is one of the many places where the rubber hits the legal road with PPACA...and possibly drives into the legal ditch.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69D5CO20101014

"On the issue of the so-called "individual mandate," the law's provision that all Americans obtain healthcare insurance, Vinson said the plaintiffs had "most definitely stated a plausible claim" for their objections.

"The power that the individual mandate seeks to harness is simply without prior precedent," he said."

Yes, Vinson is a Reagan appointee, so let's go ahead and get that on the table now. However, I think this is one of the most significant constitutional issues with PPACA: the potential misuse of the commerce clause by the Feds. Its also critical because the individual mandate is the glue that holds the "economics" of the PPACA together.

[finnbow]

I'm not sure what I want the outcome of this to be. On the one hand, the individual mandate is certainly the glue that holds the PPACA together and the law, as currently written, seemed to be the best we could do to fix a screwed up system of health care in the country.

OTOH, the PPACA is a cobbled-together mess that codifies much of what is wrong with our health care system while fixing other aspects. If I had any confidence in the GOP actually doing something meaningful/useful if PPACA went down, I'd say this could be a good thing in the long run. However, I have no such confidence.

Could the repeal of the PPACA ultimately frustrate the public so much that they'd go for a single payer system rather than all the silly tweaks? This should prove interesting.

[noonereal]

PPACA is a disaster. My liberal brethren don't like when I say this but facts are facts.

Medicare for all is the answer.

[BlueStreak]

My question is this;

If states can mandate auto insurance, why can't health insurance be mandated?
Here, in Virginia, there is a $500 fine for not having insurance on your car.
How can this be constitutional, but mandated health insurance is not?

I am correct in saying that one of the principle problems with our healthcare system in the first place is uninsured people not paying their bills, Right? Do we not end up paying their bills through higher prices and subsequently higher premiums?

I can agree that PPACA seems to be a haphazardly thrown together mess. Good ideas sloppily executed for the sake of expediency. (An unfortunate trait of the Dem Party.)
But, I can also agree with Finn in that I have virtually no faith that the GOP would come up with anything that addresses the real problems. I see us coming out of that in even worse shape than we are now.

Dave

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

My question is this;

If states can mandate auto insurance, why can't health insurance be mandated?
Here, in Virginia, there is a $500 fine for not having insurance on your car.
How can this be constitutional, but mandated health insurance is not?

Driving is seen as an option and engaging in the activity is what triggers entry into the regulatory environment. However, under PPACA, an individual needs not engage in any activity that might be considered commerce, yet still be compelled to buy insurance coverage. This is the constitutional rub.

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I am correct in saying that one of the principle problems with our healthcare system in the first place is uninsured people not paying their bills, Right? Do we not end up paying their bills through higher prices and subsequently higher premiums?

That a part of the issue, but its a relatively small part of the issue. Its simple supply and demand that is largely responsible driving up costs in the healthcare arena.

The GOP, once upon a time, were closer to addressing the central issue of rising health care costs: addressing utilization and transparency of costs.

[merrylander]

I had one of those once, but the wheels fell off. Interesting side note, we received the statement yesterday for my wife's out-patient surgery on her index finger. Had we not had insurance or Medicare it would have been over $10,000. Yet people do not think the system is broken?

[piece-itpete]

It's the States forcing car insurance.

Anytime you get a giant power grap from the Feds some folks'll be pissed off, but eventually the masses go back to sleep.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

"Driving is seen as an option and engaging in the activity is what triggers entry into the regulatory environment. However, under PPACA, an individual needs not engage in any activity that might be considered commerce, yet still be compelled to buy insurance coverage. This is the constitutional rub."

Are you seriously trying to tell me utilization of the medical system is not commerce? Then no one should care when the uninsured use emergency rooms for common ailments and minor injuries, right? I mean, after all it's not "commerce" so it doesn't really cost us anything---correct?

"That a part of the issue, but its a relatively small part of the issue. Its simple supply and demand that is largely responsible driving up costs in the healthcare arena."

Really? At double % digits annually? Don't buy it.

"The GOP, once upon a time, were closer to addressing the central issue of rising health care costs: addressing utilization and transparency of costs."

When did this fairy tale take place, and who would they have had to deny treatment to---to make it work?

Dave

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

The GOP, once upon a time, were closer to addressing the central issue of rising health care costs: addressing utilization and transparency of costs.

Must have been before my time.

[merrylander]

Dave, any idea what he is snoking? Must be damn fine stuff.