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  #61  
Old 03-29-2015, 10:05 AM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
Middle Eastern security threats we face are largely attributable to carrying Israel's water for over 60 years. To the extent they provide us intelligence, it's not much of a repayment for the $115 billion we've given them, not to mention the lives expended in Iraq on their behalf. Hell, it's our support of them that largely causes our need for the intelligence to begin with. With friends like them, ....
We were in Iraq because of Saudi Arabia.

We're the vicious Islamic nations' foes because they need a scapegoat to detract from the conditions their policies create.

Pete
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  #62  
Old 03-29-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
We were in Iraq because of Saudi Arabia.

We're the vicious Islamic nations' foes because they need a scapegoat to detract from the conditions their policies create.

Pete
Yep. But also because there are serious cultural/religious problem within Islam. Not only directed at those outside of Islam but between Islamic sects as well. What it boils down to is that within Islam or outside of it, if you don't believe what I believe, you're an infidel. And depending on the zealotry of the particular sect, an infidel is way, way too often worthy of nothing beyond getting your head lopped off with a dull knife on a pretty beach somewhere. Or taken out in the street, shot in the head and having your corpse dragged by the ankles behind a motorbike through the streets of Gaza city.

A religion of peace...my ass.
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Last edited by Ike Bana; 03-29-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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  #63  
Old 03-29-2015, 10:21 AM
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Yet, we're the ones at the bargainig table providing political cover for Iran's nuke program. Freaking Iran, who have said repeatedly that they want to wipe Isreal off the map.

Meanwhile, while we're negotiating with Iran, we've left a vaccuum in Iraq that Iran has stepping into, and Iran's friends the Houthis have turned Yemen upside down. So, taken to the extreme, one could make the case we've also left the Saudis twisting in the wind 'cuz they've got Iranian forces or friendlies on their northern and southern borders.

Really, what the hell are we doing?

Still waiting for anyone to take a shot at answering the question above. General Flynn, Defense Intelligence Director up until about a year ago, was on TV this morning and stated that he's confused, and has no doubt that foreign leaders in the region are confused, about just what our policy and objectives are in the region.

Meanwhile, Iran is apparenlty on the march in the region, the Saudis see Iran as on the offensive, and has built its own colaition of Sunni states to fight a proxy war in Yemen and elsewhere.

Yet, we're negoiating with Iran like a deal with Iran is our number one foreign policy goal? A deal that may not be enforcable or truly binding?

Sheesh.

Last edited by whell; 03-29-2015 at 10:23 AM.
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  #64  
Old 03-29-2015, 10:49 AM
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Still waiting for anyone to take a shot at answering the question above. General Flynn, Defense Intelligence Director up until about a year ago, was on TV this morning and stated that he's confused, and has no doubt that foreign leaders in the region are confused, about just what our policy and objectives are in the region.

Meanwhile, Iran is apparenlty on the march in the region, the Saudis see Iran as on the offensive, and has built its own colaition of Sunni states to fight a proxy war in Yemen and elsewhere.

Yet, we're negoiating with Iran like a deal with Iran is our number one foreign policy goal? A deal that may not be enforcable or truly binding?

Sheesh.
The short answer to your question is "I have no fucking idea!"

It could be argued that we should back away from helping the Saudis in Yemen since, apart from anything else, the Houthis have proven to be the only force able to get the upper hand on AQAP and have also done well against ISIS.

The Hadi government has left the country so, essentially, the Houthis are in charge now. If they're defeated, the power vacuum left in Yemen may cause it to fall to the (Saudi-backed) Sunni terrorists. It's a fucking mess and there are no good answers.

John
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  #65  
Old 03-29-2015, 11:39 AM
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Still waiting for anyone to take a shot at answering the question above. ...
Cleaning up from Dubya's malfeasance, both in the economy and in the Mideast, is decidedly messy. Hearing the GOP complain about it is like listening to an arsonist bitch about the fire department.
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  #66  
Old 03-29-2015, 12:13 PM
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It's amazing, how Bush can make Obama screw the pooch

Ike I think people blame Israel for a lot of the ME stuff because the whole rotten sunni/shia mess is hard and Palestine vs Israel is easy. But right now it's mostly the regional players being FORCED to step up (and maybe seeing blowback from their own stupid moves), hopefully a home grown solution is worked out (with us trying to advance our interests of course) and some sort of stability takes hold.

And while we're at it, I'd like a puppy :/

Pete
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  #67  
Old 03-29-2015, 12:24 PM
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Cleaning up from Dubya's malfeasance, both in the economy and in the Mideast, is decidedly messy. Hearing the GOP complain about it is like listening to an arsonist bitch about the fire department.
Indeed.
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  #68  
Old 03-29-2015, 02:09 PM
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One would think that after the twin debacles of Afghanistan and Iraq that we Americans would finally come to the realization that we don't have the capability of molding/forcing other nations (particularly Middle Eastern ones) to fit our view of what they should become.
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  #69  
Old 03-29-2015, 02:15 PM
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The US is exceptional. Exceptionally arrogant and pig headed, I blame the Republican fostered neo conservative movement for most of it.
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  #70  
Old 03-29-2015, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
One would think that after the twin debacles of Afghanistan and Iraq that we Americans would finally come to the realization that we don't have the capability of molding/forcing other nations (particularly Middle Eastern ones) to fit our view of what they should become.
I believe history and current events have shown us that there is only one thing that is more horrifying than the prospect of America being responsible for what Arab states become...that would be the Arab states being responsible for what they become.
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