Republicans don't even care if you know their lying

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

And Trump's does???

That's essentially the point. We're left with not knowing what really happened because the folks involved are all agenda driven, are all willing to say or not say whatever they need to in service to that agenda, and none have a great track record with unabated honesty.

So, right back to my earlier post. Folks are going to believe what they want to believe. Me? I don't believe the media reporting on this, but I don't think we know what was said in that meeting and exclusively taking Durbin's word for it is a non-starter.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

That's essentially the point. We're left with not knowing what really happened because the folks involved are all agenda driven, are all willing to say or not say whatever they need to in service to that agenda, and none have a great track record with unabated honesty.

Durbin has perhaps told a lie or two in the past years (he is a politician, after all), whereas Trump has told 2,000 in the past year and has a history of frequent racist statements. Furthermore, Flake, Scott, and Graham have no such history. Also, Trump's two Senate defenders said they couldn't recall what was said in the meeting before they affirmatively asserted a day later that they could. Lastly, Trump first tweet after the meeting admitted he used nasty language and still held the racist sentiments that led to his nasty statement.

The bottom line is that your Dear Leader has a long history of racist statements and has long been viewed by most non-sycophantic Americans as a vile, disgusting, racist human being. But, Neo-Nazis and the KKK continue to love and praise him. You're in good company.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Durbin has perhaps told a lie or tow in the past years, whereas Trump has told 2,000 in the past year and has a history of frequent racist statements. Furthermore, Flake, Scott, and Graham have no such history. Also, Trump's two Senate defenders said they couldn't recall what was said in the meeting before they affirmatively asserted a day later that they could. Lastly, Trump first tweet after the meeting admitted he used nasty language and still held the racist sentiments that led to his nasty statement.

There you go again. Since when is pushing for a merit based immigration system "racist"? Flake and Scott, and probably Graham, are much closer to each other than they are to Trump on loose immigration policy which likely colors some of their comments, particularly Flake.

You go ahead and believe what you want to believe.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

There you go again. Since when is pushing for a merit based immigration system "racist"? Flake and Scott, and probably Graham, are much closer to each other than they are to Trump on loose immigration policy which likely colors some of their comments, particularly Flake.

You go ahead and believe what you want to believe.

It isn't racist. Trump is undoubtedly so, however, and decent people are concerned he will use his racist views to inform his policy. Decent people (which excludes Trump and his apologists) don't believe that merit is race-based, but are justifiably concerned that Trump does. In the words of conservative Michael Gerson:

The claim that America needs more Norwegian immigrants and fewer Africans from “shithole countries” is racist. It is not the same as arguing for a higher-skilled immigrant pool. That argument might go something like: “We need a higher-skilled immigrant pool.”...

On this issue, Trump has not earned a single benefit of the doubt. His racial demagoguery in the Central Park Five case . . . his attribution of Kenyan citizenship to Barack Obama . . . his references to Mexican migrants as rapists and murderers . . . his unconstitutional attempt at a Muslim ban . . . his moral equivocation following the deadly protests in Charlottesville . . . his statement, reported by the New York Times, that Nigerians would never “go back to their huts” after seeing America . . . all of these constitute an elaborate pattern of bigotry. Trump makes off-hand racist comments, he promotes racist stereotypes and he incites racism as a political strategy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...98a_story.html

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by finnbow

It isn't racist. Trump is undoubtedly so, however, and decent people are concerned he will use his racist views to inform his policy. Decent people (which excludes Trump and his apologists) don't believe that merit is race-based, but are justifiably concerned that Trump does. In the words of conservative Michael Gerson:

The claim that America needs more Norwegian immigrants and fewer Africans from “shithole countries” is racist. It is not the same as arguing for a higher-skilled immigrant pool. That argument might go something like: “We need a higher-skilled immigrant pool.”...

On this issue, Trump has not earned a single benefit of the doubt. His racial demagoguery in the Central Park Five case . . . his attribution of Kenyan citizenship to Barack Obama . . . his references to Mexican migrants as rapists and murderers . . . his unconstitutional attempt at a Muslim ban . . . his moral equivocation following the deadly protests in Charlottesville . . . his statement, reported by the New York Times, that Nigerians would never “go back to their huts” after seeing America . . . all of these constitute an elaborate pattern of bigotry. Trump makes off-hand racist comments, he promotes racist stereotypes and he incites racism as a political strategy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...98a_story.html

Gerson nailed it to the barn door. I can't believe that anyone is trying to argue otherwise.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

It isn't racist. Trump is undoubtedly so, however, and decent people are concerned he will use his racist views to inform his policy. Decent people (which excludes Trump and his apologists) don't believe that merit is race-based, but are justifiably concerned that Trump does. In the words of conservative Michael Gerson:

There you go again. Folks will believe what they want to believe, and to support your position you go get a quote from "conservative" Gerson, glossing over the fact that Gerson is an ardent anti-Trumper. You could have stopped with your first sentence, but you chose to bury your first sentence in an anti-Trump rant.

Its apparently more important to the folks that want an immigration status quo to attack the administration attempting to modify the status quo than it is to have a debate about merit based immigration (or any changes to the current system for that matter. To me, this is a waste of time and unproductive. Trump's not going anywhere. I suspect you might have figured this out after a year. So, there's a choice to be made. Either spend the next 3 years pursuing something that isn't going to happen, or try to get some things done.

There are some opportunities with immigration. There are actual areas of agreement between both parties. For example. I think both parties want a solution to the so called Dreamers issue. No one want to see kids put at risk. But, I don't think its irresponsible to similarly prioritize border security.

I think some folks need to grow up. This includes the folks that may have made distasteful comments in the setting of a private discussion, the folks that either leaked the comments to leaked a salacious version of those comments in support of their own agenda, or folks who obsess about those alleged comments in the extreme.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Its apparently more important to the folks that want an immigration status quo to attack the administration attempting to modify the status quo than it is to have a debate about merit based immigration (or any changes to the current system for that matter.

Lying Donnie Dotard blew up the bipartisan attempt to come to a solution to the immigration problem after saying that he would sign what the attendees of the Tuesday meeting came up with. He deliberately sandbagged Durbin and Graham at the "shithole" meeting by making it crystal clear that race must be a factor in determining merit under his "merit-based" system. That is something Durbin and Graham, to their credit, simply could not abide.

With your stubborn desire to deny Trump's obvious racism, I recommend you read this history of his racist statements and actions:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...mp-racist.html

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Lying Donnie Dotard blew up the bipartisan attempt to come to a solution to the immigration problem after saying that he would sign what the attendees of the Tuesday meeting came up with. He deliberately sandbagged Durbin and Graham at the "shithole" meeting by making it crystal clear that race must be a factor in determining merit under his "merit-based" system. That is something Durbin and Graham, to their credit, simply could not abide.

With your stubborn desire to deny Trump's obvious racism, I recommend you read this history of his racist statements and actions:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...mp-racist.html

Right back to it, eh Finn? Here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5lcART6TTE

None of this is relevant, of course, to the need to address border security or immigration reform, which is the point I'm making but the point you want to ignore. But you keep believing what you want to believe.