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11-01-2013, 02:21 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Diego via Vermilion Ohio and Points Between
Posts: 11,538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasillaguy
Actually, while the word is used more than 200 times, it appears only once directly preceding "Jim".
Critics of the book are the ones who have made it the character's name.
I do agree it was not used in derogatory intent, it was the common descriptive of a person of color at that time.
People were also "gay" just by having good cheer.
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it is what people today feel about it that counts....and what they want their kids to see in school. And you sort of miss the significance of "200"
here is what sums up my views: Wikipedia quote
In 2009 a Washington state high school teacher called for the removal of the novel from a school curriculum. The teacher, John Foley, called for replacing Adventures of Huckleberry Finn with a more modern novel.[41] In an opinion column that Foley wrote in the Seattle Post Intelligencer, he states that all "novels that use the ‘N-word' repeatedly need to go." He states that teaching the novel is not only unnecessary, but difficult due to the offensive language within the novel with many students becoming uncomfortable at "just hear[ing] the N-word." He views this change as "common sense," with Obama's election into office as a sign that Americans "are ready for a change," and that by removing these books from the reading lists, they would be following this change.[42]
it is one thing to read a book..........quite another to force people to read a book
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Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
Last edited by icenine; 11-01-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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11-01-2013, 02:49 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
it is what people today feel about it that counts....and what they want their kids to see in school. And you sort of miss the significance of "200"
here is what sums up my views: Wikipedia quote
In 2009 a Washington state high school teacher called for the removal of the novel from a school curriculum. The teacher, John Foley, called for replacing Adventures of Huckleberry Finn with a more modern novel.[41] In an opinion column that Foley wrote in the Seattle Post Intelligencer, he states that all "novels that use the ‘N-word' repeatedly need to go." He states that teaching the novel is not only unnecessary, but difficult due to the offensive language within the novel with many students becoming uncomfortable at "just hear[ing] the N-word." He views this change as "common sense," with Obama's election into office as a sign that Americans "are ready for a change," and that by removing these books from the reading lists, they would be following this change.[42]
it is one thing to read a book..........quite another to force people to read a book
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Well, if it is going to be a big trigger of community resentment I'd agree with not going to war over the issue. No point in making a cultural fetish out of one book, however well one thinks of it.
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11-01-2013, 07:11 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,737
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I never said I thought it should be required reading. I can certainly understand how some people would be offended, but on the other hand I don't think it does anyone any good to hide our past to prevent offending people.
I really think we need to give kids more credit that they can grasp the context and understand there's no insult involved. I was able to understand that at age 7 or so. I'm sure one of us asked Mom why they kept using that bad word, and I'm also sure she explained that it wasn't a bad word back then. Done deal, we got it, and got on with enjoying the book.
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"You can't always get what you want" -Rolling Stones
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11-01-2013, 08:14 PM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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I don't understand why it is so important to some folks to preserve racial slurs. Just as I didn't get why Rand Paul cares about protecting a business owners supposed right to refuse service to customers based on race.
Or, do I?
Dave
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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11-01-2013, 08:38 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
I don't understand why it is so important to some folks to preserve racial slurs. Just as I didn't get why Rand Paul cares about protecting a business owners supposed right to refuse service to customers based on race.
Or, do I?
Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
The whole PC gripe boils down to some people resenting being told they are not supposed to go around insulting other people.
Is there any issue of greater substance here?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
Oh, add in resentment at the implication it's not OK to think badly of broad swaths of 'other' folks.
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IOW, it's reactionary resentment.
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11-01-2013, 09:17 PM
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Loyal Opposition
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
Posts: 14,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
I can't wait to see the 12 years movie.
For HS kids, I like 'Look out whitey, black power's gon' get your mama'. No kidding, it's a good book. My sis read it in AP English lit. A good balance would be 'Up from slavery'.
Pete
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When I was in high school I had a "hip" English teacher who wanted to get through all of the books targeted for the banned list before they hit it. One of them was Eldridge Cleaver's "Soul on Ice." I remember reading aloud from it and forgetting to omit the particular passage that she was sure I would recognize as offensive.
Regards,
D-Ray
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Then I'll get on my knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again; Don't get fooled again
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11-01-2013, 10:02 PM
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Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain in California
Posts: 37,222
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Boat rocker.
I read the poetry from an obscure poet, name of Jim Morrison, from the album 'Waiting For The Sun'. I was sure it would raise a ruckus with my ninth grade English teacher but she handled it with an off putting aplomb.
Damn it.
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11-02-2013, 06:46 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Don't ask me to recall my high school years, that falls under the heading of ancient history.
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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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11-03-2013, 09:31 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: SF east bay
Posts: 4,455
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Quote:
Americans for Prosperity has begun investing more heavily in local elections in the past two years, including statehouse races in Arkansas and Kansas, judicial contests in Florida and North Carolina, and mayoral ballots in Lakeville, Minn., and tiny Coralville, Iowa. Promoting education reform has emerged as a priority, spokesman Adam Nicholson said — so AFP headquarters “fully supported” its local chapter’s decision to engage in the Douglas County race.
The AFP Foundation’s Colorado chapter will spend more than $350,000 on the school board campaign, State Director Dustin Zvonek said.
“Douglas County has started to show that you can shake up the status quo” even in a successful suburban school district, Zvonek said.“We don’t want them to go backward.”
Douglas County would seem an unlikely place for an education revolution. One of the country’s richest counties, with a median household income above $100,000, it’s a deeply conservative stretch of suburbia, blanketed with look-alike homes in muted earth tones. Its schools are well-regarded and parent satisfaction has traditionally been high. Yet since the reformers took control of the 65,000-student school district in 2009, the changes have come fast and furious.
The board’s first step was to abolish tenure. Then it sidelined the local teachers’ union by refusing to negotiate a collective contract, instead working out deals one-on-one with each employee. “That really freed us up,” said Doug Benevento, a board member running for reelection on the reform slate.
The board launched the first voucher program in the U.S. to subsidize private and parochial school tuition for wealthy families in a top-ranked public school district. (The schools, including some touting a Bible-based, creationist curriculum, received a down payment of funds in 2011, but the program is on hold pending court challenges.) Douglas County has also added more charter schools and directed public funds to subsidize books and classes for home-schooled children.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...#ixzz2jb3ZER3v
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I always thought the school voucher scam to be just that, another take from the poor to give to the rich program. The whole article is an eye opener.
Carl
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Russians who vote elect Republicans
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11-03-2013, 12:08 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,163
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It's a fight over who runs the schools--tenured educational professionals, backed by a union and managed by a school board of similar mind, or ideologs who have politicized the school board to gain power.
To be sure, the education establishment has frequently been highly eligible for criticism for being complacent, bureaucratic, self-serving and, sometimes, liberal.
These radical RW changes are, of course, a harmful reaction. I'm particularly troubled by the devaluing of subjects like art and history. The ideological dislike that clearly informs this strike against the 'liberal arts' threatens the continued transmission of centuries of Western social development. But the need for their wisdom and insight and consciousness of human values is only increasing as the engines of science and technology continue transforming the planet. Dr. King had this very problem in mind back in the 1960's, when he observed:
Quote:
The means by which we live have outdistanced the ends for which we live. Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.
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Of course, there may not be room for the ideas of Martin Luther King in this brave new educational world.
Last edited by donquixote99; 11-03-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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