Crash the train to stop it

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

You call this damaged? Just wait. We'll revisit this if the default is made to happen. As of today:

4/20/23

Dow: 33,786.62
US 10-yr yield: 3.55
US Real GDP: 20.18T
Unemployment Rate: 3.5%
Crude Oil Price: 77.25

The levels of debt tell the real story.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The levels of debt tell the real story.

No, it doesn't.

The mighty Mississippi rolls on. If you don’t live near it, you might never think of that wide, powerful river. You may associate it with old Mark Twain stories. But every day, 24/7, it rolls on.

American capitalism is kind of like that. You can invent fables about how America is in economic decline. You can rail against “neoliberalism.” But the American economy doesn’t care. It just keeps rolling on.

The Economist magazine published a report on American economic performance over the last three decades. Using an avalanche of evidence and data, the main thrust of the article is that far from declining, American capitalism is dominant and accelerating.

Back in 1990, for example, America’s gross domestic product per capita was nearly neck and neck with that of Europe and Japan. But by 2022 the U.S. had raced ahead.

In 1990, the U.S. economy accounted for 40 percent of the nominal G.D.P. of the G7 nations. By 2022 the U.S. accounted for 58 percent.

In 1990, American income per person was 24 percent higher than the income per person in Western Europe. Today, it is about 30 percent higher...

The American model of capitalism is under assault from the left, which rails against the supposed horrors of neoliberalism and globalization, and from Tucker Carlson-style populists, who often treat American capitalism as a great betrayal. But it has proved superior to all real world alternatives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/20/o...lism-good.html

Needless to say, the opinion of a guy like you who is an outspoken fanboy of Putin's kleptocracy isn't particularly useful when it comes to American capitalism.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The levels of debt tell the real story.

Compare US debt as a % of GDP to other developed economies.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Compare US debt as a % of GDP to other developed economies.

Credit card debt, car debt, educational debt, shelter debt etc all off the charts.

The consumer is running out gas.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Compare US debt as a % of GDP to other developed economies.

Might part of the reason be that 34% of large, profitable corporations in the US paid nothing in federal income taxes in 2018, the first year that the Trump tax cuts went into effect and the average net corporate income tax averages 9% for all corporations? Or maybe that quite a number of billionaires, including Dear Leader pay no (or nearly no) income taxes?

The GOP's wealthy benefactors and their waterboys in Congress and the media have been really successful in convincing much of the American public that we're overtaxed and that the debt is exclusively based upon runaway spending and not too little revenue due to ridiculously low tax rates for the wealth and corporations.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by finnbow

No, it doesn't.

The mighty Mississippi rolls on. If you don’t live near it, you might never think of that wide, powerful river. You may associate it with old Mark Twain stories. But every day, 24/7, it rolls on.

American capitalism is kind of like that. You can invent fables about how America is in economic decline. You can rail against “neoliberalism.” But the American economy doesn’t care. It just keeps rolling on.

The Economist magazine published a report on American economic performance over the last three decades. Using an avalanche of evidence and data, the main thrust of the article is that far from declining, American capitalism is dominant and accelerating.

Back in 1990, for example, America’s gross domestic product per capita was nearly neck and neck with that of Europe and Japan. But by 2022 the U.S. had raced ahead.

In 1990, the U.S. economy accounted for 40 percent of the nominal G.D.P. of the G7 nations. By 2022 the U.S. accounted for 58 percent.

In 1990, American income per person was 24 percent higher than the income per person in Western Europe. Today, it is about 30 percent higher...

The American model of capitalism is under assault from the left, which rails against the supposed horrors of neoliberalism and globalization, and from Tucker Carlson-style populists, who often treat American capitalism as a great betrayal. But it has proved superior to all real world alternatives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/20/o...lism-good.html

Needless to say, the opinion of a guy like you who is an outspoken fanboy of Putin's kleptocracy isn't particularly useful when it comes to American capitalism.

The usual trick of comparing the US to Europe using misleading statistics when not trying to deal with what has transpired inside the US in the past couple of decades.

In such time the US has become more unequal. Tax breaks to the wealthy, offshoring of good-paying manufacturing jobs, increasing monopoly, massive money printing which favors those close to the printing (bankers and their associates) contributed to this growing inequality. The US is becoming increasingly a country of top and bottom.

Statistics using per person tell half the story if the distribution is very top heavy...the usual story of Bill Gates entering a regular bar.

Now I am saying what has come to characterize the economy today is the massive debt that has enveloped the citizens.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

So, if you now believe that entitlement programs should not be cut and defense spending remains untouchable, you're indirectly admitting that we have a revenue problem and not a spending problem. Accordingly, the first necessary step toward balancing the budget is to rescind Trump's tax cuts. You're welcome.

So, if your best debate tactic is to try and put words in other people's mouths, you should bow out of this discussion now before you embarrass yourself any further,

You're welcome.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

So, if your best debate tactic is to try and put words in other people's mouths, you should bow out of this discussion now before you embarrass yourself any further,

You're welcome.

Gladly. Your bad faith arguments reflect those of the House economic terrorists you emulate anyway.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by whell

So, if your best debate tactic is to try and put words in other people's mouths, you should bow out of this discussion now before you embarrass yourself any further,

You're welcome.

I see you're at your bile filled best today, Michael. Thanks for the chuckle at you trying to claim any moral high ground whatsoever. smh

[whell]

Originally Posted by bobabode

I see you're at your bile filled best today, Michael. Thanks for the chuckle at you trying to claim any moral high ground whatsoever. smh

I'm not out for your approval Robert. And you suggesting I'm "bile-filled" confirms your absolute lack of self-awareness.