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  #21  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:14 PM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander View Post
A corporation is a "free association of individuals"? Pete that is the biggest laugh I have had all week.

Speak all they want, they should not be allowed to buy elections. I don't know what the Roberts court has been smoking but they sure are not Camels.

Here is a thought, if a corporation is a person then run one for Congress.
Or sentence one to execution in the next wrongful death case.

The whole notion is absurd on it's face. And it is NOT designed to advance the wishes of every employee collectively, it is designed to advance the wishes of management and NO the the two are NOT always the same.

That's ridiculous.

Dave
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:14 PM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Not the business made of employees, but the corporation made up of shareholders.

Pete
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  #23  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
Not the business made of employees, but the corporation made up of shareholders.

Pete
Where does the money come from, Pete? The employees are not part of the organization? Managers and shareholders generate all of that revenue on their own with help from no one?

On which planet does this fantasy take place?

Furthermore, your post exposes the root of many of our problems today, IMO.

The only folks that matter are the managers and shareholders, the rest of us are just parasites, feeding off of them?
That's the attitude that needs to go, IMHO.
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-18-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:23 PM
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bhunter bhunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobabode View Post

If someone wants to dramatically change the way the country is run they should take it to the people through the normal process of legislation. What the Roberts court has done is to water down (actually, pissed in the face of) the respect and confidence that we had in the court of last resort. (Well, what little was left after their crowning the Shrub in 2000, you know.)
No, it is the court that needs to protect political speech against the silencing of a hostile legislature.

Quote:
Roberts, IIRC , at his confirmation had stated that he was against activism from the bench and the very next year pulled that Citizens United decision out of thin air. The two sides had already come to a compromise deal and it was narrowly focused on the issue before the court. Never in the 200+ years of the court has this kind of activism been seen. Law is a slowly built up succession of little steps but this one was a freaky gyration of convolutions and outright fables that I think everyone was left slackjawed and stunned by it. No one could believe much less mount any argument against this absolutely brazen power grab.
One could say the same thing about Austin v. Michigan. Have you read Kennedy's dissenting opinion in the Austin case? The suppression of speech, any speech, ought be severely restricted when there is not a clear physical danger to life regardless of assumed potentialities of unfairness IMHO. Inasmuch that corporations are great contibutors to our way of life and generally compete amongst themselves, there is little reason to unfairly lock them out of campaign involvement.
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  #25  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:37 PM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
Where does the money come from, Pete? The employees are not part of the organization? Managers and shareholders generate all of that revenue on their own with help from no one?

On which planet does this fantasy take place?

Furthermore, your post exposes the root of many of our problems today, IMO.

The only folks that matter are the managers and shareholders, the rest of us are just parasites, feeding off of them?
That's the attitude that needs to go, IMHO.
Of course, that's not my argument, and not what I'm saying. I think you know that.

Pete
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  #26  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
On which planet does this fantasy take place?

Furthermore, your post exposes the root of many of our problems today, IMO.

The only folks that matter are the managers and shareholders, the rest of us are just parasites, feeding off of them?
That's the attitude that needs to go, IMHO.
No one said that employees do not matter, but the corporation exists for the shareholders and not the employees. The employees contract their labor to the employer. I liken it to, say, leasing a piece of machinery. I know it sounds callous. This doesn't mean that employees are not valuable or have an inherent worth beyond their capacity to provide labor, but it does mean that their interests are not as important to the corporation as the interests of the shareholders.

It must also be pointed out that our higher standard of living has been brought about by the corporate structure and its concomitant increase in efficiency. Corparations do indeed have divergent and often competing interests, thus, as Obama's campaign has demonstrated, there will be plenty of competition with corporations participating in elections.
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  #27  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
Of course, that's not my argument, and not what I'm saying. I think you know that.

Pete
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhunter View Post
No one said that employees do not matter, but the corporation exists for the shareholders and not the employees. The employees contract their labor to the employer. I liken it to, say, leasing a piece of machinery. I know it sounds callous. This doesn't mean that employees are not valuable or have an inherent worth beyond their capacity to provide labor, but it does mean that their interests are not as important to the corporation as the interests of the shareholders.

It must also be pointed out that our higher standard of living has been brought about by the corporate structure and its concomitant increase in efficiency. Corparations do indeed have divergent and often competing interests, thus, as Obama's campaign has demonstrated, there will be plenty of competition with corporations participating in elections.
And that needs to change. You honstly don't see where likening people to "...a piece of machinery" might lead to problems? Did you read any of what I posted here. It already has. We've been here before. The reaction to "Welfare Capitalism" was not just unfavorable, it was violent.

In my opinion, "Citizens Untited" is antithetical to a free society. It is further consolidation of power into the hands of moneyed interests rather than the will of the common populace. It subjugates the common folk to the will of corporate bosses and their shareholders.

One man, one vote. Any other path leads to tyranny.

Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-18-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:22 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Damn, this is just like watching All Star Wrasslin'.

What we need it a digital version of the folding chair so that we can bash one another in the head.

In the meantime, our esteemed leaders will be down in the locker room having a drink and splitting up the money.

Chas
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  #29  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:05 PM
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Bugger off. I was getting all deep-n-intellectual-n-shit. Then you had to come along and ruin the mood.
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  #30  
Old 04-19-2012, 07:09 AM
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What amazes me is how the righties are only too willing to sell themselves into economic slavery, it is completely astounding.
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