If Iran feels they need nukes, who could blame them?

[neophyte]

Isolationism is as implausible as it is undesirable in modern times. We could ratchet down the hegemony many, many orders of magnitude before we even remotely approached a modicum of isolationism.

And, yes, our transgressions and war crimes have made us some bitter enemies that want retribution, as evidenced here and abroad in the past few decades. I couldn't begin to suggest how to crack that nut. We've fucked over so many countries and cultures since WW2, it may well akin to trying to holding back the tide. Clearly, its a grave situation, but, laying all the blame at the feet of others is ludicrous (not that you have, but many, if not most Americans do).

[neophyte]

Originally Posted by Charles

Believe it or not, I not only understand your arguments, but tend to endorse them.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.

The United States, while not as pure as the driven snow, has been a positive influence for the world. More or less. IMHO

But I tend to focus on how things are as opposed as to how things should be.

Chas

understandable, and somewhat expected point of view, given the luxury of being in the camp of the oppressor, and not of the oppressed.

It's very unreasonable, ridiculous even, to expect the ones holding the shitty end of the stick to languish in the same complacency. Theirs is an entirely different reality.

[merrylander]

Of course the North Koreans are as pure as the driven snow as are/were so many of the people you feel we have done wrong. I expect if you were to get an NK citizen out of the clutches of the Dear Leader he/she might tell you different.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by neophyte

understandable, and somewhat expected point of view, given the luxury of being in the camp of the oppressor, and not of the oppressed.

It's very unreasonable, ridiculous even, to expect the ones holding the shitty end of the stick to languish in the same complacency. Theirs is an entirely different reality.

Are you an Iranian?

Whether or not you are, there is still the old axiom that you need to go along to get along.

And building nukes and conducting drills on closing the Straits of Hormuz ain't exactly going along.

As far as holding the shitty end of the stick, they grabbed it, and are refusing to turn loose.

What's wrong with getting along with people? Besides, they could all be rich.

Chas

[Charles]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Of course the North Koreans are as pure as the driven snow as are/were so many of the people you feel we have done wrong. I expect if you were to get an NK citizen out of the clutches of the Dear Leader he/she might tell you different.

How's the old saying go, "The best thing you can do is to loose a war to the Americans"?

Maybe not for the grand exultated poopha, but for the rank and file schmoe, their standard of living goes up.

America, and the British Empire before them, weren't so bad.

Chas

[merrylander]

I doubt that he is Iranian, the ones I knew were only to happy to be here and out of the clutches of the Ayatollah.

[merrylander]

What annoys me about Amadinijad is all the lying, of course he wants to build bombs, since you do not need enriched uranium to generate power. Enough with the bullshit already.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by neophyte

Isolationism is as implausible as it is undesirable in modern times. We could ratchet down the hegemony many, many orders of magnitude before we even remotely approached a modicum of isolationism.

And, yes, our transgressions and war crimes have made us some bitter enemies that want retribution, as evidenced here and abroad in the past few decades. I couldn't begin to suggest how to crack that nut. We've fucked over so many countries and cultures since WW2, it may well akin to trying to holding back the tide. Clearly, its a grave situation, but, laying all the blame at the feet of others is ludicrous (not that you have, but many, if not most Americans do).

I can agree with this.

I once argued with a man, who defended the "They hate us for our freedoms." mantra, claiming "they" want to control "us". In the course of the argument he went through a list of reason why they would hate us, and claimed that all of these reasons were internal and had nothing to do with us.

(For example; "Arabs hate us because we demand oil at a reasonable price." It's their oil. Who are we to demand it from them under any condition? Are they not sovereign nations?)

When you overlook, condone or even openly support the way a ruthless dictator treats his people, in the name of securing cheap goods, commodities and/or political favors you bear NO RESPONSIBILITY for their condition? All the while professing to be the global champion of "freedom" and "human rights"????

IMO, you do.

Dave

[Charles]

Originally Posted by merrylander

I doubt that he is Iranian, the ones I knew were only to happy to be here and out of the clutches of the Ayatollah.

I only know one, which is amazing that an Iranian would come to Bugtussell in the 1st place.

I hate his guts, not for being an Iranian, but for being a lying, manipulating POS.

And attempting to insult my intelligence on a business deal, which wasn't worth fucking with in the first place.

But I don't hold that against the rest of them. I figure they're pretty good folks, just like everybody else.

Chas

[Charles]

Originally Posted by merrylander

What annoys me about Amadinijad is all the lying, of course he wants to build bombs, since you do not need enriched uranium to generate power. Enough with the bullshit already.

Jesus Christ, it's Iran.

They've got enough oil and natural gas bubbling to the surface that it would be cheaper just to take advantage of what Allah gave them as to build nuke plants.

They're like Mexico. The only reason they're not all prosperous is because of their government.

Chas