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11-20-2009, 11:28 AM
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Abby Normal
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 11,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
Bush's only involvement was in ignoring all the warnings. that is a far cry from actually planning the whole thing.
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I completely agree.
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11-20-2009, 12:21 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
Bush's only involvement was in ignoring all the warnings. that is a far cry from actually planning the whole thing.
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His involvement might have been more substantial than that. Even before taking office he expressed his desire to be a wartime president because as such he would have a freer hand to accomplish his larger agenda. He was even critical of his father for squandering his opportunity in the Gulf War.
It's known that the White House was working on plans for a war against Iraq "from day one", long before Sept. 11. Bush surrounded himself with people his father called "the crazies". Getting control of Mideast oil was a high priority for these guys. Getting Saddam Hussein was a high priority for Bush. It was a marriage made in Hell.
Freudian slip: Operation Iraqi Freedom was first named
Operation
Iraqi
Liberation.
It is believed, but not known, that during Cheney's secret energy meetings Iraq's oil wealth was divvied up among the oil companies attending. Cheney has classified everything about these meetings, even down to times, dates and who was in attendance. We do know, however, that these meetings were held before Sept. 11.
The Neocon think tank The Project For The New American Century (PNAC) authored a paper wherein they recognized that "... the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor". In other words, an event like 9/11 would be useful to them in accelerating the rate of transition to the world they sought. Many members of PNAC, ended up in the Bush Administration. Here's a partial list of signatories to the document I've cited.
Elliot Abrams
John Ellis Bush (Jeb)
Richard B. Cheney
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby (Scooter)
Donald Rumsfeld
Paul Wolfowitz
Others involved with PNAC:
Richard L. Armitage
John R. Bolton
Linda Chavez
Eliot A. Cohen
All of these except Jeb had high positions in the Administration.
When you couple these facts with the almost unbelievably easy time the highjackers had in hitting us on Sept. 11 it's impossible not to entertain the possibility that bin Laden's attacks were in some way enabled by people in our government, perhaps passively, perhaps actively. I have no firm opinions in this regard but my mind is certainly open.
John
The kid who blows up frogs grows up to blow up countries.
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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11-20-2009, 12:41 PM
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Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
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Do a little research and find that Clinton believed Saddam was a threat too - because he was. With the Butcher firing on our planes daily of course we had a plan to invade!
We HAD to get our troops out of Saudi Arabia, the infidels in the holy land Osama was harping about, root causes and all that.
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
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11-20-2009, 12:54 PM
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Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
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Check this out - look at the names:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
Not that they all believed in invasion, far from it. But what good is a fine army if you don't use it?
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
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11-20-2009, 12:55 PM
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Loyal Opposition
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
Posts: 14,401
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Every since the passage of the "Patriot Act," I have believed that 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the Bush administration, meaning it was, indeed, one of the worst things ever to happen to America.
Regards,
D-Ray
__________________
Then I'll get on my knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again; Don't get fooled again
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11-20-2009, 12:59 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Do a little research and find that Clinton believed Saddam was a threat too - because he was. With the Butcher firing on our planes daily of course we had a plan to invade!
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You mean the planes that were flying over Saddam's country harassing his military? Clinton's idea, and the UN's idea, was to contain Saddam. It was working in the sense that Saddam was indeed contained and neutered but the sanctions wreaked a terrible toll on the civilian population.
Quote:
We HAD to get our troops out of Saudi Arabia, the infidels in the holy land Osama was harping about, root causes and all that.
Pete
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This one's a real beaut! It was bin Laden who railed against the infidel Crusader army in Islam's holy places. So, after 9/11, what did Bush do? Why, pull our troops out, of course - just like his former business partner's brother insisted.
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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11-20-2009, 01:11 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
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Yeah, but see the UN inspectors and intelligence in our possession from the debriefing of Saddam's defecting son-in-law had all established that Hussein had completely dismantled his WMD program long before we invaded. Saddam was playing games, not allowing that fact to become generally known because he was afraid of his own neighbors, particularly Iran. If they knew how weak he was they might have been emboldened to take him out.
Quote:
Not that they all believed in invasion, far from it. But what good is a fine army if you don't use it?
Pete
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The best use of an army is not to use it. It should serve as a deterrent first and an aggressor last, last, last!
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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11-20-2009, 01:19 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657
Every since the passage of the "Patriot Act," I have believed that 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the Bush administration, meaning it was, indeed, one of the worst things ever to happen to America.
Regards,
D-Ray
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The thing that dismays me is the seeming reluctance of the Democrats to roll that POS back or repeal it altogether.
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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11-20-2009, 01:25 PM
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Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
You mean the planes that were flying over Saddam's country harassing his military? Clinton's idea, and the UN's idea, was to contain Saddam. It was working in the sense that Saddam was indeed contained and neutered but the sanctions wreaked a terrible toll on the civilian population.
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That was a treay that he agreed to, after he raped Kuwait.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
This one's a real beaut! It was bin Laden who railed against the infidel Crusader army in Islam's holy places. So, after 9/11, what did Bush do? Why, pull our troops out, of course - just like his former business partner's brother insisted.
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Root causes. We removed the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
The best use of an army is not to use it. It should serve as a deterrent first and an aggressor last, last, last!
John
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I was paraphrasing Albright tongue in cheek: "What's the point of having this superb military that you're always talking about if we can't use it?" M Albright to C Powell
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
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11-20-2009, 01:35 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
That was a treay that he agreed to, after he raped Kuwait.
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Well, it was part of the terms imposed on him after his defeat. Not exactly a treaty - but I don't really see a point here.
Quote:
Root causes. We removed the problem.
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After 9/11. Brilliant, huh?
Quote:
I was paraphrasing Albright tongue in cheek: "What's the point of having this superb military that you're always talking about if we can't use it?" M Albright to C Powell
Pete
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Oh, I wasn't familiar with that quote. Ms. Albright isn't one of my favorites. She's a bloodthirsty old bat.
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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