The Catholic Church Vs The Obama Administration

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by mezz

They've also been providing a lot of free health care forever.

But if they use federal money to do it, is it really charity work? Public clinics and secular organizations have provided a lot of free or low cost medical care for years as well - Organizations like Planned Parenthood.

Regards,

D-Ray

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by mezz

Not sure of the basis for that, but you've indeed described the way much of the country feels about Obama (and they have pretty good reason for doing so).

The basis is how these bishops and archbishops kept moving predatory priests from parish to parish instead of handing them over to the police as they should. These are the people who are going to preach morality to us? I think not.

They only have all those "principles" when it suits them. Have not changed much since Alexander VI and his charming daughter Lucrezia.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Since everyone ducked this I'll run it up the flagpole again.

If they provide contraception "good" catholics will not use it and only "non catholics" in their employ well use it. Since it is also used to alleviate some medical conditions, the church is allowing its dogma to interfere in the life of certain women who may require such treatment, hardly a christian act.

Not all women are wealthy enough to cover this cost AND the cost of the health insurance.

Not an issue at all. The issue is the coverage of medication used for contraception. The church's insurance carrier will deny coverage based on diagnostic codes provided by the employee's doctor when the bill is presented to the carrier. If that same medication is used as treatment for other conditions, then the doctor will prescribe it using a different diagnostic code.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

Not an issue at all. The issue is the coverage of medication used for contraception. The church's insurance carrier will deny coverage based on diagnostic codes provided by the employee's doctor when the bill is presented to the carrier. If that same medication is used as treatment for other conditions, then the doctor will prescribe it using a different diagnostic code.

Guess you have had few interactions with Aetna. Their clerks are barely literate.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Guess you have had few interactions with Aetna. Their clerks are barely literate.

Rob

This makes me think.

Where are all the literate people in the USA working?

I can think of few big businesses I interact with that don't struggle with reading a clock if it is not digital?

[noonereal]

As to the catholic church.

This is one strange organization if you think about it.

It is run by men who do not have sex with women and believe in magic.

Then every Sunday people bring their families to them to hear what they have to say.

I'd be more inclined to do the opposite of what they suggest.

[mezz]

Originally Posted by merrylander

The basis is how these bishops and archbishops kept moving predatory priests from parish to parish instead of handing them over to the police as they should. These are the people who are going to preach morality to us? I think not.

They only have all those "principles" when it suits them. Have not changed much since Alexander VI and his charming daughter Lucrezia.

There's no call here to examine the recent or medieval history of the church with regards to morality, beliefs etc. nor even the merits of the particular point of contention with regards to birth control. The political issue here is simply that this president is caught up in another episode of being two-faced and lying, not only in a direct meeting with a high ranking church official, but again he's managed to counter his own stated conviction to respect religious freedoms and be the protector of maintaining the separation of church and state.

This is not an isolated case. Can anyone really honestly claim this president has enough integrity for them to continue believing in his desire and/or ability to act in the best interest of the country - or in anyone's best interest other than what he (most often incorrectly) calculates to be his own at any given moment?

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by mezz

There's no call here to examine the recent or medieval history of the church with regards to morality, beliefs etc. nor even the merits of the particular point of contention with regards to birth control. The political issue here is simply that this president is caught up in another episode of being two-faced and lying, not only in a direct meeting with a high ranking church official, but again he's managed to counter his own stated conviction to respect religious freedoms and be the protector of maintaining the separation of church and state.

This is not an isolated case. Can anyone really honestly claim this president has enough integrity for them to continue believing in his desire and/or ability to act in the best interest of the country - or in anyone's best interest other than what he (most often incorrectly) calculates to be his own at any given moment?

The particular recent history of this bishop and his part in coverups is relevant to his credibility. I've met many people who are capable of hearing what they want to hear and twisting words to make them fit their wishes. The bishop might be a religious man, but he is also accustomed to his position of power. He can enhance that hold on power and influence with his version of the truth. You are predisposed to believe anyone but Obama. I think many of us here are predisposed to disbelieve politicians. But make no mistake about it; the bishop is a politician.

Regards,

D-Ray

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Guess you have had few interactions with Aetna. Their clerks are barely literate.

Actually I'm very familiar with their large group services which are quite robust. I'm not that familiar with their small group/individual products and services.

[whell]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

But if they use federal money to do it, is it really charity work? Public clinics and secular organizations have provided a lot of free or low cost medical care for years as well - Organizations like Planned Parenthood.

Regards,

D-Ray

You can raise the issue of federal funding, church recent history, ancient history, whatever. They're great ways to side-track from the central issue of whether or not the church as an employer was minding its own business and one day the HHS decides to try to make the church behave in a way that violates its rights as a religious organization. Can't get any simpler than that.

If you want to make it complicated, you can suggest that the church is getting in the way of Obama and company's social agenda, and putting a rough edge on the bone the Administration wants to throw to the "reproductive rights" crowd.