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  #21  
Old 12-02-2010, 04:57 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib View Post
"Nunquam aliud Natura aliud Sapientia dicit."
- Juvenal

What is needed is to restore the natural balance. All life depends on a delicate balance of the great forces of nature. With these elemental forces, it only takes a small change to result in catastrophic meteorological events causing destruction and devastation across the continents. What the scientists are saying is that we must reduce the carbon emissions or face the consequences. The earth has the capacity to restore the depleted ozone; but it will not happen unless we stop spewing industrial gases into the atmosphere at the current rate. We must act now, for it will be late to counsel then or pray when the consequences of our delay have been visited upon us. The earth is speaking to us and we should listen, for “wisdom ever echos nature’s voice.”
OK. Then how should we and the rest of the world achieve this lofty objective realistically?
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  #22  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:03 PM
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d-ray657 d-ray657 is offline
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Unless we beat her to the draw.

How do you like my cowboy rhetoric Don?

Chas
You mighta been fast at one time, old man, but there's a faster gun in town now.

Regards,

D-Ray
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  #23  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:30 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by d-ray657 View Post
You mighta been fast at one time, old man, but there's a faster gun in town now.

Regards,

D-Ray
Don't sell me short, I'm entirely capable of being a back shooter.

Hell, I might even go to work for the insurance industry.

Naw, I'm afraid if I ever got in a room full of those bastards, I would go postal. And after figuring out that I'm looking at 33K of premiums just to continue in my podunk state for another year, I'm beginning to get a SEVERE case of the ass.

As I've said before, if it weren't for the government and the insurance companies, I wouldn't need them.

Chas
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  #24  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:36 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
OK. Then how should we and the rest of the world achieve this lofty objective realistically?
We can all slit our wrists. I'm beginning to think it's a hell of an idea.

But I'll slit a few throats first, just to have someone to light my way to the next world.

I wouldn't want to get lost.

Chas
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:38 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib View Post
Two things must be initiated: (1) reducing population growth; and (2) reducing our dependence on fossil fuels. The world must take action on both fronts now. If we don’t take decisive action now, we are very likely to starve. The evidence indicates that the global warming is occurring at an accelerated rate. It’s time that we face up to the facts; or come face to face with the reality of global warming at the grocery store when we are fighting in the isles for the food on the shelves. If mankind is to survive, we need to stop denying the facts and resolve to change our ways.
Chicken Little, is that you???

Chas
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  #26  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:23 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib View Post
It’s no joking matter. Look at the evidence. The overwhelming scientific evidence indicates that global warming is occurring at an accelerated rate caused by hydrocarbon emissions into the atmosphere, and that anthropogenic activity is a significant contributing factor. What we know is that the polar icecaps are melting as evidenced by satellite imagery and decrease in mass verified by scientific measurements in situ. We also know that climate change occurs naturally as evidenced by core samples of the earth's surface. However, what we are seeing now is abrupt climate change; which the evidence links to the growth of the earth’s human population and activities over the past 250 years; and, most dramatically, in the last half century. What we know is that there is only a thin layer of ozone that shields the earth from the sun’s rays; and that it is being depleted by industrial emissions into the atmosphere resulting in the rise of the ocean temperature that generates the earth’s climate conditions. Just a small change in ocean temperature will affect the thermohaline conveyor leading to more harsh winter weather, reduced soil moisture and more intense winds in regions that provide the significant portion of the world’s food production, and cause a dramatic decrease in the human carrying capacity of the earth’s environment. The true test of science is empirical evidence - not political correctness. We must stop playing politics with this issue, and resolve to do something about it.
I'll agree, it's not a joking matter. Now whether the situation is as dire as you point out is another matter.

I realize that there are very intelligent people who have devoted their lives to this matter. I also realize that there are very intelligent people who have an agenda.

If you feed flawed data into a computer you will get flawed results. And, to the best of my knowledge, nothing that is happening now hasn't happened before. Or worse.

Whether or not this is the end of times is a moot point. Green energy just doesn't work at this time. Unless we want to go back to living in caves, burning wood, and raising turnips with a stick, we are going to require carbon fuels.

And I've said before, make green energy dependable and affordable, and I'll be the greenest SOB on the planet. But that will take time.

It's happening, only not quick enough to suit you, is my estimation.

We're on the same page, we just have different timetables,

Chas
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2010, 07:22 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Pukka - I've already stipulated its existence. The question is, from a realistic and pragmatic point-of-view, how to we do something meaningful and cost effective that every industrialized country is going to buy into or for which similar expenditures in other critical areas won't yield more tangible benefit?
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2010, 09:21 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib View Post
Two things must be initiated: (1) reducing population growth; and (2) reducing our dependence on fossil fuels. The world must take action on both fronts now.
I'm good with the second point, although the "how" is the tough part. As for your first point, just how is this done? Besides, the wealthy, industrialized nations pumping out all the greenhouse gases have, for the most part, exceedingly low birth rates. In western Europe, birth rates are low enough to cause concern about excessive population shrinkage, below what is necessary to maintain their standard of living. I'm not sure overpopulation in Niger or Burundi has a global impact in terms of pollution or global warming.

Study this chart for a moment and you'll discover that the countries pumping CO2 into the environment are not the same countries overpopulating the earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...fertility_rate
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:51 AM
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JJIII JJIII is offline
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Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib View Post
I told you that. See Post# 27, supra. The time for debate is over. It's time to take action now. Unless we reduce the pollution, the water temperature will continue to rise, which will have inevitable consequences. Still, we refuse to act, and go about oblivious to what is happening. Indeed, one would think that man had but small brains for refusing to see the cause of his own destruction.
Who woulda thunk Al Gore would join our group?
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:38 AM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 View Post
Nah, all that blood would soak up too much oxygen.

Regards,

D-Ray
Lmao!

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Don't sell me short, I'm entirely capable of being a back shooter.
That's a GREAT tag line!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib View Post
Two things must be initiated: (1) reducing population growth; and (2) reducing our dependence on fossil fuels. The world must take action on both fronts now. If we don’t take decisive action now, we are very likely to starve. The evidence indicates that the global warming is occurring at an accelerated rate. It’s time that we face up to the facts; or come face to face with the reality of global warming at the grocery store when we are fighting in the isles for the food on the shelves. If mankind is to survive, we need to stop denying the facts and resolve to change our ways.
Yes and empirical evidence - agree or be ignorant? Way too simple.

Anyway we do agree about one thing (I think), the planet is doomed. Fusion and space colonization is the only answer I see, unless the Chinese model of strapping women down and aborting their 9 month fetus is the new American way

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJIII View Post
Who woulda thunk Al Gore would join our group?
Bam!

Pete
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