Jesus

[Pio1980]

Matthew 7:16, "By their fruits----".
If it wasn't for living examples like Jimmy Carter, the elevation of a vicious troll to the presidency would move me that the whole thing is self-serving bullshit.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-lost/613999/y

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Matthew 7:16, "By their fruits----".
If it wasn't for living examples like Jimmy Carter, the elevation of a vicious troll to the presidency would move me that the whole thing is self-serving bullshit.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-lost/613999/y

By their fruits, they will be known.

But not saved.

For all I known, Ghandi could go to Hell, and John Wayne Gacy could go to Heaven.

It ain't up to me to judge anyone in any definitive way. There are certain people I'd like to avoid during my life, however. I make 'judgement call' decisions. .

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

By their fruits, they will be known.

But not saved.

For all I known, Ghandi could go to Hell, and John Wayne Gacy could go to Heaven.

It ain't up to me to judge anyone in any definitive way. There are certain people I'd like to avoid during my life, however. I make 'judgement call' decisions. .

The doctrine of salvation looks like a con to me, of little practical value if it conveys a blanket forgiveness without practical redemption for the harm caused. A con in the sense that a sale based on a cosmic need that cannot be proven other than by taking someone's word without practical verification.
Ethical altruism as the Christian example has a meaningful demonstrable practical purpose in the here and now. Cosmic promises of pie in the sky by and by, not so much. Too many Christians in prison for violent crimes for the dogma to be proven an effective deterrent to abhorrent behavior.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

The doctrine of salvation looks like a con to me, of little practical value if it conveys a blanket forgiveness without practical redemption for the harm caused.

Yep. That's what makes Christianity unique. It's Grace, and no man made religion has that aspect. It's always based on works. But Christianity is not.

I use this example: Two boys are told by their individual fathers to clean up their room. One boy's father is a typical "man made" God. e.g. Allah. The other's is Jesus.

The first boy cleans up his room out of fear because he knows that if he doesn't, he's gonna be written out of the will. The second may choose to clean up his room or he may choose not to. But he knows he is in the will regardless. If he chooses to clean up his room he does it out of love and respect for his father, who he knows has his best interests at heart. If he doesn't, he knows he's being disobedient and it will chip away at his joy in his life if he does it too much, but he will still be in the will.

It's why the bible calls us heirs.

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

The doctrine of salvation looks like a con to me, of little practical value if it conveys a blanket forgiveness without practical redemption for the harm caused. A con in the sense that a sale based on a cosmic need that cannot be proven other than by taking someone's word without practical verification.
Ethical altruism as the Christian example has a meaningful demonstrable practical purpose in the here and now. Cosmic promises of pie in the sky by and by, not so much. Too many Christians in prison for violent crimes for the dogma to be proven an effective deterrent to abhorrent behavior.

It does look like a con.

Be submissive to everything. Slavery is a fact of life, be a good slave.

But the people that wrote the con did not gain anything from it. Actually, they were tortured and killed. They wrote it so some future phony preachers could be rich ? I don't think so.

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Matthew 7:16, "By their fruits----".
If it wasn't for living examples like Jimmy Carter, the elevation of a vicious troll to the presidency would move me that the whole thing is self-serving bullshit.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-lost/613999/y

Trump being President is further proof to you that God does not exist.

OK

God, as I understand him, does not rule this world.

Jimmy would have won re-election in 1980, if the hostages had been released. Remember our anticipation in the media ? The release had been negotiated by Jimmy's State Department, they were coming home any day.

Any day now. Three months passed.

Because CIA director George H W Bush had under-cut the State Department, negotiated a delay. People say this is a conspiracy theory, and you have to research it deep. About nine credible people say it happened.

And the Neo-Cons were born.