A dream, maybe this will be good, the meltdown

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by nailer

The GOP will evaporate when the Democratic party divides. A two term Clinton presidency might be the catalyst we need.

The GOP won't evaporate right away and, IMO, will be the first to divide. First it will morph into a Trumpist/Tea Party party. Fully half of the Republican base feels betrayed by the GOP elites (corporatists). This will marginalize the corporatist and leave them without a home.

Meanwhile the Our Revolution Berniecrats, with help from the House and Senate Progressive Caucuses, will work to take over the Democratic Party from the inside. If they succeed, this will disempower the Democratic corporatists.

So you have a situation ripe for the creation of a third party through an alliance between the corporatist wings of the two existing parties and probably the Libertarians. This would be counterbalanced on the right, by a socially conservative, populist, isolationist and nativist Republican Party and on the left by a Social Democtatic, anti-corporatist and socially progressive Democratic Party, bolstered by the inclusion of the Greens.

NB: All the above is predicated on a Clinton victory. I don't even want to contemplate the likely scenario in the event of a Trumpist victory.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by icenine

The Party of Jefferson? There will be no left-wing or progressive version of the Tea Party.
America has never worked that way, as you can see right now. Consensus determines power in America.

The party of the only President elected due to the slave vote? I've no problem with that.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Boreas

The GOP won't evaporate right away and IMO, will be the first to divide. First it will morph into a Trumpist/Tea Party party. Fully half of the Republican base feels betrayed by the GOP elites (corporatists). This will marginalize the corporatist and leave them without a home.

Meanwhile the Our Revolution Berniecrats, with help from the House and Senate Progressive Caucuses, will work to take over the Democratic Party from the inside. If they succeed, this will disempower the Democratic corporatists.

So you have a situation ripe for the creation of a third party through an alliance between the corporatist wings of the two existing parties and probably the Libertarians. This would be counterbalanced on the right, by a socially conservative, populist, isolationist and nativist Republican Party and on the left by a Social Democtatic, anti-corporatist and socially progressive Democratic Party, bolstered by the inclusion of the Greens.

NB: All the above is predicated on a Clinton victory. I don't even want to contemplate the likely scenario in the event of a Trumpist victory.

Your scenario could very well be when Campaign 2024 begins in earnest. Although I think the Green party will remain green and the anti-corporatist faction will be focused on the big ones.

The Donald's reign will be glorious. Just ask him. I can't wait to see what they do to the White House.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Boreas

The GOP won't evaporate right away and, IMO, will be the first to divide. First it will morph into a Trumpist/Tea Party party. Fully half of the Republican base feels betrayed by the GOP elites (corporatists). This will marginalize the corporatist and leave them without a home.

Meanwhile the Our Revolution Berniecrats, with help from the House and Senate Progressive Caucuses, will work to take over the Democratic Party from the inside. If they succeed, this will disempower the Democratic corporatists.

So you have a situation ripe for the creation of a third party through an alliance between the corporatist wings of the two existing parties and probably the Libertarians. This would be counterbalanced on the right, by a socially conservative, populist, isolationist and nativist Republican Party and on the left by a Social Democtatic, anti-corporatist and socially progressive Democratic Party, bolstered by the inclusion of the Greens.

NB: All the above is predicated on a Clinton victory. I don't even want to contemplate the likely scenario in the event of a Trumpist victory.

Extremists don't win fair elections. The Nazi's never got a majority; Hitler became dictator through force and fraud. After Trump's defeat, he may try something similar, but it won't succeed. Sooner or later, the angry white people will be put in their place, and the GOP will still be the GOP.

Were the parties to fragment as you suggest, whichever of the right or left was least fragmented would win the next election. Facing continued electoral death, the other side would unify in response.

You can't be too far right or left to exclude the middle, and win.

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by Boreas

The GOP won't evaporate right away and, IMO, will be the first to divide. First it will morph into a Trumpist/Tea Party party. Fully half of the Republican base feels betrayed by the GOP elites (corporatists). This will marginalize the corporatist and leave them without a home.

Meanwhile the Our Revolution Berniecrats, with help from the House and Senate Progressive Caucuses, will work to take over the Democratic Party from the inside. If they succeed, this will disempower the Democratic corporatists.

So you have a situation ripe for the creation of a third party through an alliance between the corporatist wings of the two existing parties and probably the Libertarians. This would be counterbalanced on the right, by a socially conservative, populist, isolationist and nativist Republican Party and on the left by a Social Democtatic, anti-corporatist and socially progressive Democratic Party, bolstered by the inclusion of the Greens.

NB: All the above is predicated on a Clinton victory. I don't even want to contemplate the likely scenario in the event of a Trumpist victory.

Interesting analysis. I could definitely seethe Libertarian party moving forward and eventually replacing he GOP. However, I think if this happens the liberals will also have to change and morph into a more centered party, less they should feel the same disintegration as the GOP is experiencing now. How this all plays out is beyond me. And ,this is in my opinion, the positive outlook. My out look on the negative side is something I am refusing to contemplate right now.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Extremists don't win fair elections. The Nazi's never got a majority; Hitler became dictator through force and fraud. After Trump's defeat, he may try something similar, but it won't succeed. Sooner or later, the angry white people will be put in their place, and the GOP will still be the GOP.

Were the parties to fragment as you suggest, whichever of the right or left was least fragmented would win the next election. Facing continued electoral death, the other side would unify in response.

You can't be too far right or left to exclude the middle, and win.

Only if the two party system prevails and if so the extremists in both parties will pull the people from the middle to one side or the other. This is one major weakness of a two party system, though it is more effective in governance as opposed to multi-party systems (India, Israel come to mind). But like Mr. Cricket, how a two party system can be moderate, is beyond me.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Only if the two party system prevails and if so the extremists in both parties will pull the people from the middle to one side or the other. This is one major weakness of a two party system, though it is more effective in governance as opposed to multi-party systems (India, Israel come to mind). But like Mr. Cricket, how a two party system can be moderate, is beyond me.

The middle does not get pulled, it pulls back. Goldwater lost by a landslide. McGovern lost by a landslide. Trump will lose by a landslide.

Another Reagan, who combines Trump's emotional appeal to white fear and resentment with a non-threatening non-extreme image, is what you really have to worry about.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Extremists don't win fair elections. The Nazi's never got a majority; Hitler became dictator through force and fraud. After Trump's defeat, he may try something similar, but it won't succeed. Sooner or later, the angry white people will be put in their place, and the GOP will still be the GOP.

Were the parties to fragment as you suggest, whichever of the right or left was least fragmented would win the next election. Facing continued electoral death, the other side would unify in response.

You can't be too far right or left to exclude the middle, and win.

We essentially have no middle any more and when one is reestablished, it won't be the same middle as the last one we had. The winner will be the one who is most persuasive in selling a progressive social democratic or a nativist isolationist vision for the country.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The middle does not get pulled, it pulls back. Goldwater lost by a landslide. McGovern lost by a landslide. Trump will lose by a landslide.

Another Reagan, who combines Trump's emotional appeal to white fear and resentment with a non-threatening non-extreme image, is what you really have to worry about.

The middle is often duped into voting for one side or the other; Reagan, Bush are recent examples. Now seems like H--> will be the beneficiary.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

The middle is often duped into voting for one side or the other; Reagan, Bush are recent examples. Now seems like H--> will be the beneficiary.

The party of dupes had a big party last night.

We were doing high-fives between shots of Russian Vodka.

Dupe is all a matter of perspective.

Dupes are 45-0 Rajoo.