Congratulations America!

[finnbow]

Unfortunately, the Dems have nobody to blame but themselves for this. The sausage-making spectacle of the 2000 page health reform bill died under its own weight, not to mention the unsightly horse-trading with Nelson, Landrieu, et al. As hosed as the American health care delivery system is, it's not clear to me that the Dem's plan even addressed the core issue of cost control. If they had put forth a clear, rational plan that fully addressed the critical issues and did the requisite job of fostering widespread public support for it, it would have been accomplished months ago. I think the fact that the GOP offered no viable alternative was truly pathetic, but the Dem's didn't do themselves any favors with their incompetent handling of the issue.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Unfortunately, the Dems have nobody to blame but themselves for this. The sausage-making spectacle of the 2000 page health reform bill died under its own weight, not to mention the unsightly horse-trading with Nelson, Landrieu, et al. As hosed as the American health care delivery system is, it's not clear to me that the Dem's plan even addressed the core issue of cost control. If they had put forth a clear, rational plan that fully addressed the critical issues and did the requisite job of fostering widespread public support for it, it would have been accomplished months ago. I think the fact that the GOP offered no viable alternative was truly pathetic, but the Dem's didn't do themselves any favors with their incompetent handling of the issue.

I disagree at least to some degree. They tried. The Republicans did everything in their power to make them fail. Not because it was in the best interest of America or the American people, but so they could get elected. Reasonable solutions were dead before the debate even started. This "Socialist" bull shit made it an impossible battle.

I want to line up every Republican who said "we all agree we have to do something" and ask them what they intend to do now. But I already know the answer- nothing.

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

. Reasonable solutions were dead before the debate even started. .

How do you debate someone who is behind a locked door?

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

How do you debate someone who is behind a locked door?

At least a couple of ways as I recall.

-In public. The "socialist" ads were on the air before there was even a proposal. They were bashing it before it even existed.

-Lie. Make up stuff that's not actually in the bill to scare people.

-Deflect. Talk about everything except what the bill is actually about. Abortion for instance.

-Stall. Drag the thing out so long that nothing gets done, all the while saying "we all agree something needs to be done".

There's nothing for it. Sure this is overstating it, but indulge me on a dark evening for progressively minded Americans- Our country is doomed. The Republicans have so mastered the art of selling messages to the American people that we will never move forward. We'll sit at the sidelines and watch the world pass us by. Soon we'll look at China and see something that looks very familiar. Something we all remember from our childhood.

But Republicans will have power! And that's all that matters. They will continue to build a system that benefits only the most wealthy members of our society all the while convincing the middle class that they are on their side- hey, they drive trucks! We'll see cycle after cycle of boom and bust. You and I will get soaked, but the wealthy will do just fine. We'll lose any services the government ever provided and be sold that they're giving us "freedom."

Yeah, okay, a little over the top.

[hillbilly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_-L4fyLUo

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I disagree at least to some degree. They tried. The Republicans did everything in their power to make them fail. Not because it was in the best interest of America or the American people, but so they could get elected. Reasonable solutions were dead before the debate even started. This "Socialist" bull shit made it an impossible battle.

I want to line up every Republican who said "we all agree we have to do something" and ask them what they intend to do now. But I already know the answer- nothing.

I hear ya. But one needs to battle bullshit with a better argument and and not obfuscation and unseemly political maneuvering. The Dem's had a lot of goodwill from the public right after the election and the largest majority they could have hoped for. They blew it, plain and simple.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I hear ya. But one needs to battle bullshit with a better argument and and not obfuscation and unseemly political maneuvering. The Dem's had a lot of goodwill from the public right after the election and the largest majority they could have hoped for. They blew it, plain and simple.

I'll agree that the Republicans play the game better than the Democrats. Nothing deters them. Doesn't matter how damaging it is to the country or her people, they stay the course. The soulless bastards will always win because the Democrats keep trying to make things better. They're dumb enough to care about people and that will be their downfall.

It's not the end of the world. We're only one country, soon to be added to the ash-heap of history. Progress will continue to progress with our without America. We'll fall further and further behind every year until we're entirely irrelevant. Ah, but our taxes will be low.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

It's not the end of the world. We're only one country, soon to be added to the ash-heap of history. Progress will continue to progress with our without America. We'll fall further and further behind every year until we're entirely irrelevant. Ah, but our taxes will be low.

I wonder whether my daughter would like a permanent house guest in Italy.

Actually, I'm not sure how much this election will change. Perhaps the health care bill won't pass but perhaps, through reconciliation, it will. Beyond that, I don't see it really mattering.

So, we have 59 seats now to the Republican's 41. We now officially have less than a veto-proof majority but in the practical sense we never really did have it. What with Lieberman and the Blue Dogs we had a secure 60 vote majority on precisely nothing.

Let's forget about that pipe dream and get down to business. We need to get a new Leader in the Senate NOW and we need to give Lieberman the old heave ho right after that.

Having 58 seats is plenty if the Democrats learn how to play hardball. The last time the Republicans had 60 seats was 1923. We all know how impotent they've been since then.

John

[Twodogs]

Wasn't there something about elections having consequences? It appears that America is ready for more change (or would it be less)? Brown was running against Obama, Reid, and Palosi, not Marsha (or was it Margaret). I personally think she had a slight chance right up to the time Obama "popped in" with the kiss of death. I can't wait to see what's next in the democrat's bag of suicidal shenanigans.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Wasn't there something about elections having consequences? It appears that America is ready for more change (or would it be less)? Brown was running against Obama, Reid, and Palosi, not Marsha (or was it Margaret). I personally think she had a slight chance right up to the time Obama "popped in" with the kiss of death. I can't wait to see what's next in the democrat's bag of suicidal shenanigans.

Yeah- those bastards. Tried to make health care available to everyone.