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  #1  
Old 07-05-2009, 08:39 AM
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Grumpy Grumpy is offline
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What next ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090703/..._care_overhaul

This is just plain stupid...
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2009, 09:13 AM
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wajobu wajobu is offline
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An overhaul is needed, but the approach is wrong.

Our health insurance premiums will be rising again next year between 20 and 32 percent (240% increases in the last 8 years...the 20 to 32% I quote is what Anthem Blue Cross has submitted to the State Insurance Rate Commissioners). I think that we should ALL be responsible for our own healthcare to a certain extent, and that there should be a National Major Medical baseline plan for EVERYONE who is a citizen. If you want more than baseline coverage, you pay on the private market...if you can't afford it, that's life. But EVERYONE gets a baseline plan that comes out of your taxes...everyone pays and everyone gets.

I think that many folks don't realize how much employers pay for group health insurance plans--no clue. We have a private non-group plan that generally costs about 35 to 50% less than a group plan provided by employers (but with a private plan you can be denied from the plan...this is a managed risk pool like auto insurance...with a group plan you cannot).

Next year, with the projected price increase, our insurance will again EXCEED THE COST OF OUR HOUSING!! Read that again. This is for a basic hospitalization plan with $5K deductible and an HSA that we fund out of a bank account every month. We pay for everything out of pocket against the deductible.

The plan that most employers pay for (if they have a group plan) will be thousands per month for a family plan. The larger the group (read ENTIRE COUNTRY) the larger the risk pool and the more the costs can be spread amongst many people thereby decreasing many costs with economies of scale. The private add-on plans will keep the private market alive.

A baseline National Health Plan is the right way to go.
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Last edited by wajobu; 07-05-2009 at 09:18 AM.
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2009, 10:06 AM
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Combwork Combwork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajobu View Post
An overhaul is needed, but the approach is wrong.

Our health insurance premiums will be rising again next year between 20 and 32 percent (240% increases in the last 8 years...the 20 to 32% I quote is what Anthem Blue Cross has submitted to the State Insurance Rate Commissioners). I think that we should ALL be responsible for our own healthcare to a certain extent, and that there should be a National Major Medical baseline plan for EVERYONE who is a citizen. If you want more than baseline coverage, you pay on the private market...if you can't afford it, that's life. But EVERYONE gets a baseline plan that comes out of your taxes...everyone pays and everyone gets.

I think that many folks don't realize how much employers pay for group health insurance plans--no clue. We have a private non-group plan that generally costs about 35 to 50% less than a group plan provided by employers (but with a private plan you can be denied from the plan...this is a managed risk pool like auto insurance...with a group plan you cannot).

Next year, with the projected price increase, our insurance will again EXCEED THE COST OF OUR HOUSING!! Read that again. This is for a basic hospitalization plan with $5K deductible and an HSA that we fund out of a bank account every month. We pay for everything out of pocket against the deductible.

The plan that most employers pay for (if they have a group plan) will be thousands per month for a family plan. The larger the group (read ENTIRE COUNTRY) the larger the risk pool and the more the costs can be spread amongst many people thereby decreasing many costs with economies of scale. The private add-on plans will keep the private market alive.

A baseline National Health Plan is the right way to go.
What you're describing is the way the NHS was originally set up in the U.K in 1948; cover for medical emergencies, extras available for those who could afford them. This is why in the main, Doctors and Spe************************ts were not employed by the NHS, they worked for the NHS under contract. Part of the deal was they did NHS work for free as long as they had access to NHS equipment for their private work.

The problems began when medical emergencies was expanded to include things like Cancer, long term heart problems etc. that were incurable in 1948, therefore not included in the costing. Once these treatments became available to private (fee paying) patients, the public demanded that they be available for everyone. You can see their point; would you accept seeing the Boss's wife being cured of cancer while your wife died of it?

I think this is basically how it should be; if you wanted a private room with fresh flowers in a vase and top quality food it was available, but you had to pay extra for it.

Now, alongside medical centers and NHS hospitals with good medical care for all, private medical care and private hospitals complete with TOTL equipment are available to those who can afford it, funded either by private insurance schemes or for those with very deep pockets, paid for when needed.

As things stand, the NHS gives very good medical care, but has become terribly top heavy; beurocrats of all descriptions outnumber medical staff. This can change, but it's a hot potato; effectively you'd be asking the beurocrats who presently milk the system to devise ways of making it more efficient and put their own jobs at risk.

Could the above be improved and made to work in the USA? I don't see why not.

Last edited by Combwork; 07-05-2009 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:19 AM
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Twodogs Twodogs is offline
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I pay roughly 1120 dollars per month for my and my wife's health care. Let me go on record and say that I'm good with that. If it was twice that, it would be better than being taken care of by government bureaucrats. All I can envision with the government taking over health care, is one more hand grabbing money and not giving two shits about my health. Our government does two things really well; building highways and keeping a military. I wish they would just stick to that.
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Combwork

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combwork View Post
What you're describing is the way the NHS was originally set up in the U.K in 1948; cover for medical emergencies, extras available for those who could afford them. This is why in the main, Doctors and Spe************************ts were not employed by the NHS, they worked for the NHS under contract. Part of the deal was they did NHS work for free as long as they had access to NHS equipment for their private work.

The problems began when medical emergencies was expanded to include things like Cancer, long term heart problems etc. that were incurable in 1948, therefore not included in the costing. Once these treatments became available to private (fee paying) patients, the public demanded that they be available for everyone. You can see their point; would you accept seeing the Boss's wife being cured of cancer while your wife died of it?

I think this is basically how it should be; if you wanted a private room with fresh flowers in a vase and top quality food it was available, but you had to pay extra for it.

Now, alongside medical centers and NHS hospitals with good medical care for all, private medical care and private hospitals complete with TOTL equipment are available to those who can afford it, funded either by private insurance schemes or for those with very deep pockets, paid for when needed.

As things stand, the NHS gives very good medical care, but has become terribly top heavy; beurocrats of all descriptions outnumber medical staff. This can change, but it's a hot potato; effectively you'd be asking the beurocrats who presently milk the system to devise ways of making it more efficient and put their own jobs at risk.

Could the above be improved and made to work in the USA? I don't see why not.
I don't think that you can appreciate just how corrupt things are in the USA.

Chas
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2009, 01:48 PM
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Combwork Combwork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I don't think that you can appreciate just how corrupt things are in the USA.

Chas
s
I can't argue with that. When it comes to US politics I'm in way over my head. What I was trying to do was put in context a system that for all its faults seems to work fairly well. I have to admit I'm not an impartial observer; over the last two and a half years I've had treatment for two strokes and one epileptic fit. There is no way I could pay for the treatment I've had and the pills I'm still on privately.
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2009, 03:11 PM
noonereal noonereal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
I pay roughly 1120 dollars per month for my and my wife's health care. Let me go on record and say that I'm good with that.
I am good with that as well.

Now I pay about the same for my daughter and I and I am not good with it.

Then I know many many people who cannot afford to pay what you and I do.
I don't believe that means that they should be deprived of health care.

So, to no surprise we disagree.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2009, 05:14 PM
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Well ok then, lets give all Americans the same health care I have. Let's give those who would, one more incentive to not work. But wait a minute, that won't work because what about all the third world folks. Surely we can't leave them out can we? They are people too aren't they. Let's just get rid of every stinken incentive for anyone to work, because it's not fair for me to have something that the poor (lazy) guy down the street doesn't have. Oh, but Jay, some folks haven't had the same opportunity as you have. Bullshit, if they are living in this country, and have enough "drive" anyone could get health care. For those that truly are in need, what ever happened to family, or the local community or church? I'm so fucking sick of hearing how I have to pay more taxes because of poor old Mr. Jones who never had a fair shake. Fuck Mr. Jones and the horse he rode in on, I hope he dies so he will be off the welfare roll too.

Now you know how I feel, but alas we disagree.
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Last edited by Twodogs; 07-05-2009 at 05:17 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2009, 05:21 PM
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OvenMaster OvenMaster is offline
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That article is very similar to what I have here in Massachusetts.

State law says that you must carry health insurance. You have to supply your policy number and insurance company on the form included with the annual state income tax returns.

If your employer provides health benefits, great. You're all set.

If your employer does not provide health insurance and you can afford to pay for it, you pay for it.

If you meet certain income levels, you get premium assistance.

http://tinyurl.com/orwnxk
and
http://www.mass.gov/Eeohhs2/docs/mas..._deskguide.pdf

If you can afford insurance but do not choose to buy it, you are fined. The fine is added to your tax levy on your annual return.

If your employer can afford to offer health insurance but chooses not to offer it, they must instead pay into a state fund.

My own income is such that I qualify for Medicaid. That means I pay zero per year. I have my own doctor, what's covered is just about everything, and I never have to worry about a bill. Frankly, I love it. Just like I did in Canada, I no longer need to worry about getting sick.
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Last edited by OvenMaster; 07-06-2009 at 01:27 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2009, 07:20 PM
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JJIII JJIII is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
Well ok then, lets give all Americans the same health care I have. Let's give those who would, one more incentive to not work. But wait a minute, that won't work because what about all the third world folks. Surely we can't leave them out can we? They are people too aren't they. Let's just get rid of every stinken incentive for anyone to work, because it's not fair for me to have something that the poor (lazy) guy down the street doesn't have. Oh, but Jay, some folks haven't had the same opportunity as you have. Bullshit, if they are living in this country, and have enough "drive" anyone could get health care. For those that truly are in need, what ever happened to family, or the local community or church? I'm so fucking sick of hearing how I have to pay more taxes because of poor old Mr. Jones who never had a fair shake. Fuck Mr. Jones and the horse he rode in on, I hope he dies so he will be off the welfare roll too.

Now you know how I feel, but alas we disagree.
I'm with you on this also.
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