St. Louis: White Missouri cop kills armed black 18-year-old

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Would it make any difference to you if brown was attempting to surrender?

Sure, but the grand jury found no probable cause to believe that scenario and I accept their judgment. I don't much care if you don't. If subsequent legal proceedings reverse this finding, I'm good with that too.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Would it have made any difference if Brown had been shot once between the eyes? Would your entire opinion on Ferguson have changed if Wilson was a better marksman under pressure?

i'd like to explore, for example, why an officer's gun cannot be better secured or secured in a way that an officer is not fearful of it being easily taken from him.

i'd like to understand why 3 bursts were felt necessary to this officer... would you or i likely feel the same?

i'd like to consider if an officer needs a gun loaded and his hip all the time

i'd like to understand why a taster is not a first line defense when the officer is in conflict

i'd like to understand why the officer did not secure himself in his car and wait for back up when that became an option.

i'd like to discuss the real problem, why are guns not made illegal so we can disarm the cops too.

i think it is irresponsible to not have ã conversation

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The issue simply boils down to the standard of whether a cop is reasonable in perceiving a threat (regardless of whether a threat actually exists (as in a realistic-looking toy gun)). In recognition of the dangers/uncertainties of policing (or even personal self-defense), this is what the law has evolved to. If you don't like the results this standard has brought, I think you'll have to get behind a case that goes all the way to the SCOTUS and overturn it. Unfortunately in the real world, I'm not sure any other standard makes sense (or at least that's the courts have decided).

Watch the video.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...e_charged.html

No indictment.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by noonereal

i'd like to explore, for example, why an officer's gun cannot be better secured or secured in a way that an officer is not fearful of it being easily taken from him.

i'd like to understand why 3 bursts were felt necessary to this officer... would you or i likely feel the same?

i'd like to consider if an officer needs a gun loaded and his hip all the time

i'd like to understand why a taster is not a first line defense when the officer is in conflict

i'd like to understand why the officer did not secure himself in his car and wait for back up when that became an option.

i'd like to discuss the real problem, why are guns not made illegal so we can disarm the cops too.

i think it is irresponsible to not have ã conversation

While such a conversation may prove interesting, that ship sailed long ago.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Watch the video.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...e_charged.html

No indictment.

John

Nor recently in Milwaukee.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...f-a-black-man/

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by merrylander

You all assume that the kid was actually armed and the weapon they found was not a simple plant. Cops have been known to carry the odd weapon for just such purposes.

After reading this account I'm not so sure a "throw down" gun wasn't used.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-libert...ay-he-made-bad

Cops have easy access to weapons like this, and as you said they've been known to use them before to cover their asses. I have no doubt that many are carrying them now that the spotlight is on them.

The officer was not wearing a personal camera and the video camera installed in the patrol car was not working, police said.

How convenient.

He said a 9mm pistol recovered from the scene and purportedly carried by Martin, bore a serial number that had been defaced.

How convenient again.

No way to trace it back to Martin............or

to the Cop that planted it.

The footage taken late Tuesday night, which appeared to show someone raising what appeared to be a gun

Many things appear to the cops as guns when in the hands of a black man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeOaTpYl8mE

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Nor recently in Milwaukee.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...f-a-black-man/

Far less clear cut. Apparently no witnesses to contradict Manney's version of events. On its face, it appears that he did something really stupid and poked a sleeping (schizophrenic) man with his night stick and then lost control of it. For that stupidity, he was shit canned. Good riddance.

Did you watch the video? Any thoughts?

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Far less clear cut. Apparently no witnesses to contradict Manney's version of events. On its face, it appears that he did something really stupid and poked a sleeping (schizophrenic) man with his night stick and then lost control of it. For that stupidity, he was shit canned. Good riddance.

Did you watch the video? Any thoughts?

John

I watched it. Given that it wasn't unreasonable to suspect that he may have had a gun and intended to use it, the cops' actions met the legal standard for use of lethal force. Does it suck? Yes. Should the cops be prosecuted? No.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Sorry, but I must assume you have access to the Google Machine. Do a search yourself, but make sure your Google search string discriminates between those who were justifiably shot and those who were not. Otherwise, it's meaningless (cops shooting armed hostage-takers or armed, barricaded madmen ain't necessarily a bad thing). Once you've completed your search, I'll be happy to review it. Carry on.

It is very difficult to get statistics on the actual amount of people shot by the police. In our society we should be able to know the total number, circumstances, and a demographic background total deaths.

It is mandated by law but seems not to be strictly adhered to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I watched it. Given that it wasn't unreasonable to suspect that he may have had a gun and intended to use it, the cops' actions met the legal standard for use of lethal force. Does it suck? Yes. Should the cops be prosecuted? No.

Did you notice that he put the gun on the ground when he saw the cops? Did you notice that it was after he put the gun down that he was shot?

What you couldn't notice because there was no audio is that Crawford said, "It's not real!" as he laid the gun on the floor.

John