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  #21  
Old 01-31-2015, 12:31 PM
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Boreas Boreas is offline
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Originally Posted by BeamOn View Post
This case has given Putin another opportunity to meddle in international affairs with Greece all ready to paint themselves red. Will be interesting to see what the US and Germany will do to keep Greece solvent. Either way, Greece will come out ahead meaning nothing will change economically for the long term..
Do you have any evidence that he is meddling or is this just Cold War 2.0 paranoia!

Be careful! This whole Russia vs. The West thing may just turn out to be the MIC doing a little sales promotion.

John
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  #22  
Old 01-31-2015, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
Do you have any evidence that he is meddling or is this just Cold War 2.0 paranoia!

Be careful! This whole Russia vs. The West thing may just turn out to be the MIC doing a little sales promotion.

John
LONDON — Just days after shaking European economic policy to its core with a sweeping win in Greek elections, the radical leftist party Syriza is challenging a fundamental tenet of the continent’s foreign policy by seeking a softer stance on Russia.

Both before and after coming to power this week, party leaders have made no secret of their affinity for the Kremlin. They visited Moscow to show solidarity after Western condemnation of the Russian annexation of Crimea last spring. New Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras made the Russian ambassador his first foreign visitor within hours of taking office Monday.

Now Syriza is complicating Western efforts to take a tough line against Moscow amid an escalating Russian-backed insurgency in southeastern Ukraine.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...6a0_story.html
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  #23  
Old 01-31-2015, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
LONDON — Just days after shaking European economic policy to its core with a sweeping win in Greek elections, the radical leftist party Syriza is challenging a fundamental tenet of the continent’s foreign policy by seeking a softer stance on Russia.

Both before and after coming to power this week, party leaders have made no secret of their affinity for the Kremlin. They visited Moscow to show solidarity after Western condemnation of the Russian annexation of Crimea last spring. New Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras made the Russian ambassador his first foreign visitor within hours of taking office Monday.

Now Syriza is complicating Western efforts to take a tough line against Moscow amid an escalating Russian-backed insurgency in southeastern Ukraine.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...6a0_story.html
Thank you Finn, I was basing my opinion from the very same article.

Putin/Russia have lost a lot of their muscle due to their spiraling economy and all they can do in the foreseeable future is to meddle internationally, just to keep Russia relevant. Their favorite targets are NATO, EU and the US.
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Last edited by Rajoo; 01-31-2015 at 01:18 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-31-2015, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
LONDON — Just days after shaking European economic policy to its core with a sweeping win in Greek elections, the radical leftist party Syriza is challenging a fundamental tenet of the continent’s foreign policy by seeking a softer stance on Russia.

Both before and after coming to power this week, party leaders have made no secret of their affinity for the Kremlin. They visited Moscow to show solidarity after Western condemnation of the Russian annexation of Crimea last spring. New Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras made the Russian ambassador his first foreign visitor within hours of taking office Monday.

Now Syriza is complicating Western efforts to take a tough line against Moscow amid an escalating Russian-backed insurgency in southeastern Ukraine.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...6a0_story.html
How dare Syriza "complicate Western efforts" to support the EU-backed coup government in Kiev? The nerve of those people!

The article speaks of overtures toward Russia from the new democratically elected government in Greece. There is no mention of Russian "interference".

I mean, let's get real here! First of all, the Syriza government has already declared that it has no desire to leave the EU or even the "eurozone". Second, after the royal rogering the Greeks received from the EU and Western bankers, they'd have to be fools not to explore any and every avenue for getting their country back on track.... except, that is, the avenues that took them to where they are now.

The article you linked to is very, very slanted, by the way, especially as regards the issue of increased sanctions on Russia.

"Now Syriza is complicating Western efforts to take a tough line against Moscow amid an escalating Russian-backed insurgency in southeastern Ukraine.

"The new dynamic was on display Thursday, with European foreign ministers gathered for an emergency meeting in Brussels to consider fresh sanctions against Moscow just days after shelling killed 30 civilians in the Ukrainian port city of Mariupol. But amid Greece’s doubts, the ministers could agree only to extend existing sanctions while deferring any decision on new ones after hours of emotional debate.

"'The discussion was open, frank and heated,' Lithuanian Foreign Minister Linas Linkevicius said in an interview.

"Although Greece is just one of 28 members of both the European Union and NATO, both organizations operate on a principle of unanimous consent, meaning any member can block policy with a simple veto."


The article implies that Greece exercised its veto to prevent the EU from imposing greater sanctions. The truth is that the EU members were pretty well split on the issue and, when one considers that France's Hollande, among others, wants sanctions lifted altogether, the vote to maintain them can be thought of as something of a victory.

"After years of Russian support for populists on the far right and far left in an attempt to undermine European unity, the election of Syriza gives Moscow a potentially critical spoiler at the heart of Western decision-making."

Again, no indication that the Russians actually are doing anything here, just that they might.

Booga-booga!

"'You have a lot of people asking themselves whether Greece is going to play the role of the Trojan horse,' said Ben Nimmo, a European security analyst and former NATO official. 'But nobody really knows. And you have mixed messages coming out of the Greek government.'"

See? Typical Fox News "Some people say...." with no substance and no facts.

The whole thing reads more like an op-ed but it's offered as reporting. Pretty disappointing, given it's from the WaPo.

John
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  #25  
Old 01-31-2015, 02:07 PM
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NATO would like to present a common front against Russian aggression, particularly with Putin seemingly likely to use such aggression to foster support for his regime during a serious economic downturn. To me, it's fully understandable that NATO and leaders of EU nations are concerned about Greek overtures with Russia.

While Greece may have taken a screwing from western bankers, etc., the fiscal management of their country, with or without European intervention, has been pretty abysmal. Tax evasion is a national pastime there and it's pretty damned difficult to balance the books when 6 in 10 pay no income taxes. The gap between what Greek taxpayers owed last year and what they paid was about a third of total tax revenue, roughly the size of the country’s budget deficit.
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Last edited by finnbow; 01-31-2015 at 02:10 PM.
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  #26  
Old 01-31-2015, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
NATO would like to present a common front against Russian aggression, particularly with Putin seemingly likely to use such aggression to foster support for his regime during a serious economic downturn. To me, it's fully understandable that NATO and leaders of EU nations are concerned about Greek overtures with Russia.
Do you, for one second, believe that there would be any "Russian aggression" were it not for Western meddling in Maidan?

And you said it yourself: "Greek overtures with Russia" (although the construction is typically "to" rather than "with"). The present discussion resulted from my asking BeamOn if he had any evidence of Russian meddling in Greece. In response, you posted that pathetic article from the Post as evidence, even though the author made no such claim.

So, my question remains unanswered.

Quote:
While Greece may have taken a screwing from western bankers, etc., the fiscal management of their country, with or without European intervention, has been pretty abysmal.
I don't disagree but that's not to the point. Clearly Syriza's success can be attributed to the dismal failures of the last several governments as well as the depredations of Western bankers and neoliberal policies of the EU toward Greece.

John
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  #27  
Old 01-31-2015, 02:29 PM
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Do you, for one second, believe that there would be any "Russian aggression" were it not for Western meddling in Maidan?
I do indeed.
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  #28  
Old 01-31-2015, 02:31 PM
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I do indeed.
Paint us a scenario.

John
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2015, 02:43 PM
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Paint us a scenario.

John
Similar to Georgia in 2008, using the excuse of protecting Russian-speakers. I cannot ascribe benign happenstance to that kleptocratic little weasel, Putin.
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Last edited by finnbow; 01-31-2015 at 02:59 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-31-2015, 05:21 PM
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Similar to Georgia in 2008, using the excuse of protecting Russian-speakers. I cannot ascribe benign happenstance to that kleptocratic little weasel, Putin.
Yeah, but without the Maidan coup, there would have been no separatist movement for Russia to support as happened with Abkhazia and South Ossetia, so no pretext for intervention.

(No fair saying that that little weasel Putin don't need no stinkin' pretext. Weasels always need a pretext.)

John
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