Not a good day for economic news...

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

That's because there's not been much real, sustainable economic improvement. This month's data is just another example. The US banks are still too tight, businesses are still too uncertain and not making significant investments, and unemployment is still too high.

Add to that what appears to be a building economic slow down in China and buckling European financial markets, and you've got what some refer to as "echos of 2008" on the horizon, with Eurozone countries considering their own version of TARP:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47639849

And, there won't be either. Until we start putting money back in the pockets of consumers. And, who are "the consumers", Mike? Being unemployed is no help, being under-employed (compensated) is not much better.

Here, I'll tell ya what. Why don't we address this issue by encouraging business to get even leaner and meaner....lay off more people....give their boss a tax cut and then encourage him to rehire at lower wages let him crack the whip all he wants....And if the little people give him any shit...."Hey, screw'em, just take the work elsewhere, I don't blame ya. Maybe Brazil, Uraguay or wherever.....Who cares? F**k the American worker, they're just machinery anyways, you can get a better deal elsewhere............."

Yeah, that'll make for a wonderful, prosperous and peaceful future.

What do you do when you've given them everything.....tax cuts, bailouts, deregulation, union free environments...and it STILL isn't enough?

That's what I want to know.

Although, I hope I don't live long enough to find out. 'Cuz I have a strong suspicion it's going to suck pretty bad for most people.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Expected a better, more mature response from you.

I believe there is too much that is bad with Europe and that puts a huge brake on the world.

Come on dude, you know damned well that the GOP no longer puts the country first and is fighting hard to tank the economy before election day.

Posting sanctimonious crap here does not change fact.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by bobabode

I saw Clinton's Tresury secretary advocating a new WPA and Conservation Corp.

I have said dozens of times that if you want to get the economy out of a recession like this you have to raise taxes and put people to work building infrastructure that will benefit business and society long term.

Big business will not invest in the country so the government needs to tax and do it for their own good as well as the rest of society.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

And, there won't be either. Until we start putting money back in the pockets of consumers. \(

and the best way to do that is to put them to work building for the future.

[whell]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I have said dozens of times that if you want to get the economy out of a recession like this you have to raise taxes and put people to work building infrastructure that will benefit business and society long term.

Big business will not invest in the country so the government needs to tax and do it for their own good as well as the rest of society.

This strikes me as a "living in the past" strategy. Who's going to do all of this infrastructure-building? The unemployed today are largely made up of everyone from home builders to retail middle managers to computer techies to office/clerical workers. 75 years ago when Roosevelt ordered up the likes of the WPA, there were a plethora of workers who were skilled, at least minimally and many were quite skilled, in labor, construction, carpentry, etc. Today, those skills are a bit harder to come by in today's workforce. Not to mention that many of today's workers are averse to getting their hands dirty. Also, the composition of today's workforce is majority female.

So, whose gonna do all this building? I suspect we'd have to import labor to do the type of massive labor infusion / government payroll spending to get the the WPA levels of the 1930's. It's not meant to be an antagonistic question, but rather a "real" assessment of today's labor force versus "yester-year."

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by whell

This strikes me as a "living in the past" strategy.

ROTFLMAO!!!! This is a priceless post Whell. Priceless.

Good stuff! Thanks.

You are something my friend.

Who's going to do all of this infrastructure-building? The unemployed today are largely made up of everyone from home builders to retail middle managers to computer techies to office/clerical workers. 75 years ago when Roosevelt ordered up the likes of the WPA, there were a plethora of workers who were skilled, at least minimally and many were quite skilled, in labor, construction, carpentry, etc. Today, those skills are a bit harder to come by in today's workforce. Not to mention that many of today's workers are averse to getting their hands dirty.

Sorry Whell, I come from the school of "yes I can" not "no I can't."

I learned quickly in the workplace in my early 20's that I could accomplish most anything, sorry you never learned this.
Sorry this is just not valid.

Also, the composition of today's workforce is majority female.

and women can't do a "men's" job? LOL, I love your posts.

So, whose gonna do all this building? I suspect we'd have to import labor to do the type of massive labor infusion / government payroll spending to get the the WPA levels of the 1930's. It's not meant to be an antagonistic question, but rather a "real" assessment of today's labor force versus "yester-year."

Realistically I think you are MUCH to pessimistic about the USA labor force.
Most folks can be trained rather quickly to do the grunt work. All they need is motivation. They have none presently because they are underpaid, under appreciated home builders, retail middle managers, computer techies and office/clerical workers.

Aside from your dogmatic zeal I find you to be a bit of a conundrum Whell.

[merrylander]

Funny Chrysler's sales were up 30%, somebody is lying through their teeth.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

This strikes me as a "living in the past" strategy. Who's going to do all of this infrastructure-building? The unemployed today are largely made up of everyone from home builders to retail middle managers to computer techies to office/clerical workers. 75 years ago when Roosevelt ordered up the likes of the WPA, there were a plethora of workers who were skilled, at least minimally and many were quite skilled, in labor, construction, carpentry, etc. Today, those skills are a bit harder to come by in today's workforce. Not to mention that many of today's workers are averse to getting their hands dirty. Also, the composition of today's workforce is majority female.

So, whose gonna do all this building? I suspect we'd have to import labor to do the type of massive labor infusion / government payroll spending to get the the WPA levels of the 1930's. It's not meant to be an antagonistic question, but rather a "real" assessment of today's labor force versus "yester-year."

I think you may have helped to clear up something I've been trying to articulate for quite some time, now. And that would be where our nations weakness, it's "soft underbelly" if you will, really lies.............

Maybe it's time to drag all of those lazy, pampered cubicle lizards out of the A/C and teach them a strong WORK ethic? I think so. I'm guessing that if they had to actually exert and perspire, (God forbid), half of them would be dead within a year.

An incident that occurred just a few years ago, comes to mind. You see, the environment I work in is very loud, dusty and in the summer sometimes reaches 115 degrees. In the winter....pretty much whatever it is outside. (I don't mind, I have always worked this type of job and worse. Heck, for four years I worked on the flight decks of aircraft carriers.

One day the A/C system broke down in the office spaces at the coffee plant.
It wasn't long at all before our materials manager was in the maintenance office screaming that it's "...inhumane to expect people (him) to work in temperatures over eighty degrees!" When we laughed at this fat, pampered and lazy parasite he went straight upstairs to the plant manager.
It still didn't get fixed for another week. Of course cry-baby stopped showing up for work until after it was fixed, because he couldn't handle it. (Who cares? The place always runs more smoothly with him out of the way anyhow.)

Yes, I'd say you touched on a core issue in regards to to the "wimpification" of America. Too many cubicle lizards. Agreed.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

This strikes me as a "living in the past" strategy. Who's going to do all of this infrastructure-building? The unemployed today are largely made up of everyone from home builders to retail middle managers to computer techies to office/clerical workers. 75 years ago when Roosevelt ordered up the likes of the WPA, there were a plethora of workers who were skilled, at least minimally and many were quite skilled, in labor, construction, carpentry, etc. Today, those skills are a bit harder to come by in today's workforce. Not to mention that many of today's workers are averse to getting their hands dirty. Also, the composition of today's workforce is majority female.

So, whose gonna do all this building? I suspect we'd have to import labor to do the type of massive labor infusion / government payroll spending to get the the WPA levels of the 1930's. It's not meant to be an antagonistic question, but rather a "real" assessment of today's labor force versus "yester-year."

Ah yes, the usual crap about the American worker who won't get his habds dirty - 99and 44/100ths pure BS.

Having a job takes money, you know gas for the car to get you back and forth. If the people are offered something below the poverty level it does not pay to accept it, you are better off with odd jobs, especially if payment is under the table. You sure can't survive on Chinese rates.

Then we have all those construction workers who were replaced with illegals, there are scores of them. Training - who here in this group has never used a hammer? I have about four, air compressor and three different nail guns. Power tools galore, drills, saws, chop saw.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Ah yes, the usual crap about the American worker who won't get his habds dirty - 99and 44/100ths pure BS.

Having a job takes money, you know gas for the car to get you back and forth. If the people are offered something below the poverty level it does not pay to accept it, you are better off with odd jobs, especially if payment is under the table. You sure can't survive on Chinese rates.

Then we have all those construction workers who were replaced with illegals, there are scores of them. Training - who here in this group has never used a hammer? I have about four, air compressor and three different nail guns. Power tools galore, drills, saws, chop saw.

Training is one thing. And before we can scale up a WPA effort we'd need a ton of it.

The other thing is the poor physical shape of the work force. A generation that has been employed in sedentary and "lighter" work won't cut it. At least not right away, and not without some major physical conditioning.

You may be right - for some, desperation will be a powerful motivator. But we've also got a whole 'nuther issue with folks who've found illegal activity preferable to seeking work, whether the economy is good or bad.