St. Louis: White Missouri cop kills armed black 18-year-old

[finnbow]

We live in a country where significantly more law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in the single year of 2010 (177) as soldiers killed in Iraq in all years from 2010 to the present (118).

Yet, we expect them to make perfect split-second decisions at the risk of their own death or criminal prosecution if their split-second decisions prove incorrect after the fact. Furthermore, these decisions are made on the mean streets of the most dangerous country in the industrialized world with 300 million guns in circulation and a plethora of social problems. How would you like to have a job where your decisions had to be made in seconds and wrong decisions cost you your life, livelihood or freedom?

I've been to over 60 countries and the only places remotely as dangerous as the rougher streets of the American cities I've lived (DC, Baltimore and New Orleans) are Mombasa and Colon, Panama, and then only at night.

This is the backdrop for our laws which state that a cop must only reasonably perceive a threat (even if, after the fact, a threat didn't truly exist) before using deadly force. It's a chicken and egg conundrum. Some seem to contend that tough cops beget tough streets, whereas others seem to contend that tough streets beget tough cops. As usual, the answer lies somewhere in between, though skewed toward the latter IMHO.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

We live in a country where significantly more law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in the single year of 2010 (177) as soldiers killed in Iraq in all years from 2010 to the present (118).

Yet, we expect them to make perfect split-second decisions at the risk of their own death or criminal prosecution if their split-second decisions prove incorrect after the fact.

Please quit with this straw man, Pat. It's unworthy of you.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Please quit with this straw man, Pat. It's unworthy of you.

John

All I'm saying is we have expectations of our cops to act like programmed, infallible robots on the mean streets of America. Having lived in northern Europe for 11 years and the reminder of my life in relatively dangerous American cities, it's simply ridiculous to expect our cops to act like their counterparts in (relatively crime-free) northern European countries.

I can assure you that I'd much prefer living in a relatively safe, mostly unarmed society with far fewer social problems and not one where we use legions of armed cops to address our seemingly intractable social ills. Yet, unless and until we solve these problems, armed cops and the attendant fuck-ups associated with them will remain part of the American fabric. Get used to it.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

All I'm saying is we have expectations of our cops to act like programmed, infallible robots on the mean streets of America.

I know that's what you're saying. It's not true.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I know that's what you're saying. It's not true.

John

It is in the sense that we seem to be asking for infallibility in their judgments as to what represents a perceived threat.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by finnbow

All I'm saying is we have expectations of our cops to act like programmed, infallible robots on the mean streets of America. Having lived in northern Europe for 11 years and the reminder of my life in relatively dangerous American cities, it's simply ridiculous to expect our cops to act like their counterparts in (relatively crime-free) northern European countries.

I can assure you that I'd much prefer living in a relatively safe, mostly unarmed society with far fewer social problems and not one where we use legions of armed cops to address our seemingly intractable social ills. Yet, unless and until we solve these problems, armed cops and the attendant fuck-ups associated with them will remain part of the American fabric. Get used to it.

Price of freedom.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by finnbow

We live in a country where significantly more law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in the single year of 2010 (177) as soldiers killed in Iraq in all years from 2010 to the present (118).

Yet, we expect them to make perfect split-second decisions at the risk of their own death or criminal prosecution if their split-second decisions prove incorrect after the fact. Furthermore, these decisions are made on the mean streets of the most dangerous country in the industrialized world with 300 million guns in circulation and a plethora of social problems. How would you like to have a job where your decisions had to be made in seconds and wrong decisions cost you your life, livelihood or freedom?

I've been to over 60 countries and the only places remotely as dangerous as the rougher streets of the American cities I've lived (DC, Baltimore and New Orleans) are Mombasa and Colon, Panama, and then only at night.

This is the backdrop for our laws which state that a cop must only reasonably perceive a threat (even if, after the fact, a threat didn't truly exist) before using deadly force. It's a chicken and egg conundrum. Some seem to contend that tough cops beget tough streets, whereas others seem to contend that tough streets beget tough cops. As usual, the answer lies somewhere in between, though skewed toward the latter IMHO.

OK Mr Law and Order (oh you have not been to Iraq by the way, and I doubt you would get off of plane in Honduras or El Salvador today) give me the statistics of how many people have been killed by the police in any given year.
Good luck.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by icenine

OK Mr Law and Order (oh you have not been to Iraq by the way, and I doubt you would get off of plane in Honduras or El Salvador today) give me the statistics of how many people have been killed by the police in any given year.
Good luck.

And I doubt their cops are unarmed bobbies.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by finnbow

And I doubt their cops are unarmed bobbies.

Give me the stats of how many people were shot and killed for 2010 by law enforcement across the US.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by icenine

Give me the stats of how many people were shot and killed for 2010 by law enforcement across the US.

Sorry, but I must assume you have access to the Google Machine. Do a search yourself, but make sure your Google search string discriminates between those who were justifiably shot and those who were not. Otherwise, it's meaningless (cops shooting armed hostage-takers or armed, barricaded madmen ain't necessarily a bad thing). Once you've completed your search, I'll be happy to review it. Carry on.