The logic doesnt add up....

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Our current prosperity, the average person worldwide has never had it so good (including us!).

You can look at the US and world economy right now and say that?? Real wages (adjusted for inflation) have declined since Clinton. Actually, they had been declining since Reagan but up-ticked (a little) during Clinton's 8 years and began to decline again under Bush.

Why? Someone stabilizes most of the globe and keeps shipping lanes open.

Shit yeah, man! We stabilized the Hell outa the Middle East!

I have not changed my point. I said Europe gets a free ride on national security. From us.

I know you did. Then suddenly you were saying we should leave if we didn't need to be there.

If they don't need us, lets leave and save billions. If they do, pony up (and btw stfu ) (them, not you )

If it were a question only of what those countries need we would leave. It's really about projecting American military power around the world. It's "gunboat diplomacy" without the diplomacy part.

Finn, I understand and certainly do not believe we are perfect. We act out of self-interest. But we've learned it's better for us to have customers! Not slaves.

Customers? Before Reagan we were a net importer of raw materials and a net exporter of finished goods. Now it's the reverse. We export raw materials and then buy the products that others make from them. That's a pretty fair description of a third world country.

John

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Ay Dios Mio, Ayn effing Rand, 'splains a lot.

I don't get the reference?

Originally Posted by finnbow

You may find this interesting. If "happiness" is what we're all after, the USA ranks 23 among the worlds countries. Having travelled and lived in over 50 countries, I believe there's something to this.

I'm pretty happy Finn, I've got my 'little pink house' and a buck or 2 left over. Well 25 or 50 cents nowadays

You guys realise I'm NOT arguing for a policy, etc, I'm talking about reality, what's really happening! We have somewhere around 700 foriegn bases in somewhere around 130 countries (poking around online).

Even if those numbers are inflated consider the meaning!

Pete