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  #21  
Old 05-09-2017, 06:17 PM
sheltiedave sheltiedave is offline
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You are right. We should get back to the good old days, when gays hid in the park and committed suicide.
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
Denial? I don't think that was the case at all. I walked down the aisle with my groom and was wed in a very formal, traditional wedding - in front of family and friends - and came out fully intent on living a gay life wed to my groom. I think I was embracing it.
Your recent posts sound as if you are against gay unions - in case use of the word 'marriage' offends some folk.

Florence and I had thirty-three years as soulmates, she passed into the light three days before our 32 wedding anniversary. Nothing in the world outside could have threatened our marriage, we were the only ones who could offer it a threat. As a Jewish friend put it we were b'sheirt - destined for each other even before birth.While she could still speak her last words to me were 'I love you'. We had quite simply fallen in love at our first meeting - and never looked back.
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  #23  
Old 05-12-2017, 07:17 AM
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BowTied BowTied is offline
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Despite emotions and feelings . . .

Despite my own emotions and feelings, I have the tendency to look at things from an anthropological and sociological standpoint, with a healthy dose of historical perspective thrown in. On all continents, in every country, culture, society, whatever, the way the human race has perpetuated itself for eons is marriage and the family and good ol' put your penis in the vagina sex. That's just how it works. Yeah, me and my groom get all dressed up, have a wedding, get our hearts racing and get all turned on, and yeah, we're very much in love, but in the big picture the whole "penis in the vagina" thing is undeniably invaluable. Before Todd, I'd fully expected a wedding in my future - to a bride - followed by babies and all that. Apparently not. But I'm still honest enough with myself and endeavoring to regard things from a standpoint of genuine intellect, unclouded by my own wants, desires, or feelings.
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  #24  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:10 AM
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donquixote99 donquixote99 is offline
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Your main dilemma is going to be that once you take wants, desires, and feelings out of it, one's left with no reason to prefer one thing or another, to say this is better than that, or to judge anything.

There's just no substitute for digging into the wants, desires, and feelings. It's a lifetime project....
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  #25  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:59 AM
sheltiedave sheltiedave is offline
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There are plenty of babies in the world that desperately need parents, and I mean they are desperate. Foster parents, adoptive parents, and parents by proxy. If you think gay marriage short circuits the ability to love, raise, and be parents with the whole baby thing, you are wrong.

A family is not defined solely around the making babies routine. Just as the decision to start a family is a decision both out of love and a certain level of selfishness, the decision not to seek starting a family through adoption is very much a selfish one. One of the greatest gifts we are given is the ability to share our love within the context of a family.

We personally know at least fifteen couples who have adopted, including two gay couples and a lesbian couple - in Missouri! Last time I heard about fostering, there is a need for over 200 foster parents in St. Louis alone. I'm sure this shortage is nationwide.
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  #26  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:30 PM
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merrylander merrylander is offline
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Originally Posted by sheltiedave View Post
There are plenty of babies in the world that desperately need parents, and I mean they are desperate. Foster parents, adoptive parents, and parents by proxy. If you think gay marriage short circuits the ability to love, raise, and be parents with the whole baby thing, you are wrong.

A family is not defined solely around the making babies routine. Just as the decision to start a family is a decision both out of love and a certain level of selfishness, the decision not to seek starting a family through adoption is very much a selfish one. One of the greatest gifts we are given is the ability to share our love within the context of a family.

We personally know at least fifteen couples who have adopted, including two gay couples and a lesbian couple - in Missouri! Last time I heard about fostering, there is a need for over 200 foster parents in St. Louis alone. I'm sure this shortage is nationwide.
As it happened in both marriages there was no possibility of children. My first wife could not get pregnant whatever we tried and despite surgery. Florence had undergone a radical hysterectomy three years before we met, So is the suggestion that those were not 'real' marriages?

Having adopted in Canada during my first marriage the main reason there are so few adoptions here is that the laws governing adoption and parental rights are asinine. Here in misogynistic Maryland they failed to pass an act that would have denied any parental rights to a rapist if his act made the woman pregnant.
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  #27  
Old 05-12-2017, 04:14 PM
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Given the way some "natural parents" treat their infants and kids, I'm not impressed with straight as a paragon of ideal family life. My own was much closer to ideal than some others, tho' there's no test required for responsible reproduction. It's generally easier to generate pregnancy than to think rationally or do the simplest tasks.
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Last edited by Pio1980; 05-12-2017 at 04:18 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-12-2017, 07:51 PM
sheltiedave sheltiedave is offline
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Yep Pio, the first hour is the easy part. The next 21 years are the march to the sea. :-)
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  #29  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:39 PM
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If certain activist types only cared as much about the condition of the fetus's host prenatal situation, and the infant and parent(s) post-natal welfare as affordable public services. That was Planned Parenthood's forte, that's pro life in practice.
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  #30  
Old 05-14-2017, 08:19 PM
sheltiedave sheltiedave is offline
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Can anyone think of anything that Huckabee helped MLK with, like marching with him?
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