Check Out the Scumbag Dem's In WI

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Well, we've seen what unions did to every industry that they touched. Unions simply can not efficiently compete in a global economy without needing costs and barriers to competition imposed by the state. Unions, an anachronism that chokes innovation and builds stifling bureaucracies.

Trade union membership, per se, has little or no bearing on competitiveness. Consider for a moment that Germany has twice the level of trade union membership as the US, but is the second leading nation in the world in terms of exports. As for it stifling innovation, the German auto industry (highly unionized) leads the world in innovation.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/la...ion-membership

That said, I still don't agree with the need or the desirability of public sector unions.

[whell]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

As the Wisconsin court determined, this is not a strike because the teachers are not demanding anything from the school district. The teachers are exercising their constitutional right to protest the actions, or proposed actions, of government.

Speaking of good faith, all of the unions said that they were willing to meet and confer with the administration over the changes to the benefits. Apparently, he found it inconvenient to allow working people to petition the government.

Also, while the Wisconsin legislature may be entitled to change it's own statutes, it cannot change the US Constitution. Maybe you didn't notice that the Unions' right to represent the various employees' includes the right to petition the government. By attempting to exclude almost all subjects of bargaining, the gov is interfering with that right. The action is also likely subject to an equal protection challenge, because the proposed legislation has no rational basis for distinguishing between the unions in the level of bargaining permitted. That is unless political retribution is considered a rational basis.

Regards,

D-Ray

Whatever the WI court has ruled, how can this not be a strike, or at least a slow - down, when the schools in a number of districts have been forced to shot down?

Union members have the right to petition the government, but their employer can determine that the employee's time spent petitioning the government is interfering with work, and request that the employee engage in non-productive activities during non-work time. Union employees don't have the unrestricted rights to engage in collective bargaining activities during work hours, though they may do so during break time or lunch time.

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Good for them. If the Republicans in the state legislature want to cut costs, let them start by hacking their own lavish pay and benefits.

Dave

Good idea. Let's start by firing legislators who don't show up for work.

[finnbow]

Even though I'm no fan of public sector unions, the Governor brought this unfortunate mess upon himself (and the state).

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by whell

Good idea. Let's start by firing legislators who don't show up for work.

i am fine with that

[stereocuuple]

has anyone asked who is footing the bill for the absent members hotels and meals and car fair and drinks and the days off. Walker is in the right here and should press to have recalls for those who are not in session. the unions which i normaly support are way off base here. this about sacrifice and doing what is right for the future. i have seen the groups that are protesting in the capitol and they make me ashamed to be a union member. these over compensated and greedy assholes should lose thier jobs immediately. they dont care about the state or the schools or anything except themselves.

every teacher in the us should be tested and evaluated by the districs they work for. if they fail fire them fuck the teachers union. our schools are pre prisons at best and its the staffs fault period. no amount of funding will fix them. the kids deserve better the taxpayers too.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Same thing happens in the UK. To avoid public anger over high bonus payments, senior managers can by laid off them hired back with a different title at a higher pay rate, usually the equivalent of their old basic rate with the bonus added in monthly installments. Clever. A wage rise that isn't seen to be a wage rise.

And the thing that gets me, that no one's asking - what's their retirement age? It'll take a miracle for me to retire in my 60s, if at all.

Anyone know the minimum retirement requirements for the Wisconsin crowd?

Originally Posted by d-ray657

You hit that nail on the head Blue. As the court said in Hanover Federation of Teachers v. Hanover Community School Corp., 457 F.2d 456 (7th Cir. 1972)



The state of Wisconsin has also spoken of collective bargaining as a right:



So yes, it is fair to say that the governor is attempting to trample on the rights of public employees.

I spoke in an earlier post that, in Missouri, the public body is not required to accept the proposals of a union, and may enact a law that is contrary to the proposals made by the union. It appears that such is the case in Wisconsin too. The governor could get the contributions he and the secretary deem necessary under the law as it stands. This attempt to crush the unions is a completely unnecessary abuse of power.

Regards,

D-Ray

Employees of course can assemble and petition. But, how does that apply to FORCING every employee there to join - and pay? Don't those who don't wish to join have the same freedom the union demands?

Originally Posted by Charles

I'm sure it's the same reasoning.

And as detestable as I find having employers handle taxes for the government, I realize that it would be impossible for them to control the great unwashed. But union dues???

To tell the truth, I'd like for everyone to be paid 100% of their salary and then submit payment to the government with their own devices.

Not only would this be a real eye opener for the vast majority of Americans, but the vast majority of politicians as well.

I'll tell you one thing, this for sure would result in change you can believe in. If nothing else, it would raise the percentage of likely voters by a considerable amount.

Let everyone experience the boot on the neck, why should employers have all of the fun?

Chas

100% agreed.

Originally Posted by whell

Good idea. Let's start by firing legislators who don't show up for work.

BAM!

Pete

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

Good idea. Let's start by firing legislators who don't show up for work.

Better idea lets dump all the republican governors in the Arctic Ocean.

[stereocuuple]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Better idea lets dump all the republican governors in the Arctic Ocean.

substitut "republican governors" for all politicians and im on board.

let the sharks sort them out.

this would also make "shark week" much better.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by stereocuuple

substitut "republican governors" for all politicians and im on board.

let the sharks sort them out.

this would also make "shark week" much better.

they'd eat the sharks for breakfast