10% U.S. Flat Tax Accross the Board!

[kretinus]

Originally Posted by Negotiableterms

Uh oh... I'm a tax lawyer and CPA

And a flat tax would put you out of a job so...

Actually I would argue that the only Consitutionally legitimate function of taxation is to raise revenue to allow the government to perform the duties required under the consitution, the attempts to use it for other purposes are what cause the problems.

It's not the governments job to be architects of the economy, only to make sure those who engage in commerce operate lawfully and ethically. Instead they do the former and ignore the latter.

I understand your point, but i would point out that in making it all so complicated, the unintended consequences have been worse than they would be according to your argument against a flat tax.

This system, in Iowa at has resulted in a situation where the lowest 20% of wage earners pay a higher real tax rate than the top 20%.

There's only one solution to that problem, a flat tax of some form. Any attempt to correct it through alterations to the current tax code I assure you will result in even more complex rules and when it's all said and done, the situation will not have changed.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by kretinus

There's no such thing as multiple truths, a thing is either right or wrong, what you describe is simply a means to deny the truth and justify the agenda of the day.

And who is the determiner of this universal right or wrong?

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by kretinus

Then move, $24K a year in a lot of places would be a very comfortable living.

where? some third world country?

[Grumpy]

For over 5 years we supported a family of 6 on 17K a year. 24 grand would have been us living large.

[merrylander]

Running through this thread and others is the usual 'government is inefficient' mythology, you want inefficiency I give you Constipation Energy, our local power company.

First off the put in an investment banker as CEO, not an engineer. He used all the revenues investing in non-power related stuff and let the infrastructure rot.

Where I came from there were two utilities that I dealt with, Hydro Quebec and Ontario Hydro. Both were goverment owned and both are profitable and have ample power reserves for the future. Their rates are less than half what Constipation charges (and Constipation wants to raise them again after getting a 72% raise last year). They say we may see brownouts in a few years because they want the taxpayers to build their new plants.

BTW if the two Canadian utilities did not produce so much power half the northeast states would be freezing in the dark.

[wintermuted]

Originally Posted by kretinus

I'm more concerned about the problems caused by people who get lost in shades of grey fog. The real world is not as complicated as you want it to be, it's really fairly simple if you choose to see reality. There's no such thing as multiple truths, a thing is either right or wrong, what you describe is simply a means to deny the truth and justify the agenda of the day.

Please don't ever run for office.

[Brett A]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

For over 5 years we supported a family of 6 on 17K a year. 24 grand would have been us living large.

That doesn't mean everyone can do it everywhere. I live in a part of Massachusetts that has been economically depressed for 30+ years, and a 3 bedroom apartment is going to cost you $900+ utilities; houses start around $180k. Could you do that on 17k? If it was $17k after taxes and you didn't own a car (but you have to around here) Maybe.

[Grumpy]

It was 17 before taxes. The only income we had was my wife delivering pizzas for Domino's. I was paying 980 for my mortgage at the time. I know there are other areas more depressed then the greater Detroit area but not by much.

And no I am not saying my family is better then anyone else. Just saying we were hurting big time and all most lost our house several times but you do what you have to in tough times.

[Brett A]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

It was 17 before taxes. The only income we had was my wife delivering pizzas for Domino's. I was paying 980 for my mortgage at the time. I know there are other areas more depressed then the greater Detroit area but not by much.

And no I am not saying my family is better then anyone else. Just saying we were hurting big time and all most lost our house several times but you do what you have to in tough times.

Got it.

Back to the flat tax topic, it seems to me on its face to be a good idea. I think simplest solutions are always the best but no matter what the challenge, solutions have to work.

The only exception to the flat tax that I could see advocating for would be for those who giving up 10% of their income would mean going without basic human necessities such as food, clothing, and medical care.

I am of the opinion that people need to take care of each other to some degree. No one is truly on their own. For all its glaring imperfections and excesses, government is one of the ways in which we do take care of each other. I'd like to see a government that uses some wisdom and discretion when helping those at the bottom.

Working with the 10% figure that's been floated, I'd happily pay 11% so that some -those truly in need- would not have to pay any.

[kretinus]

Originally Posted by wintermuted

Please don't ever run for office.

Brilliant counter, absolutely brilliant. I applaud you for bringing a new level of sophistication to the field of trolling.