WikiLeaks

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

Its all the GOP's fault, or Bush's fault. Gawd that gets old - not to mention lacking much basis in fact. Like, for example, the Dems who wanted to extend the Bush tax cuts as is, which makes it clear that the Dems lacked much unity on the issue. Its pretty convenient to ignore these little facts when they get in the way of the desired storyline.

Likewise it gets really old constantly hearing how Obama is personally responsible for every dumb move the government has made since Teddy Roosevelt. And will likely continue to be held responsible for every dumb thing the government will do up until the sun expands into a Red Giant and burns the planet to a smoldering cinder. Which BTW, will be his fault as well, there just won't be anyone left to tell it.

The Dems always lack unity. One of the things I love about them---Less of a herd mentality. The right, on the other hand, would follow their leader over a cliff, so long as he makes them feel patriotic, righteous and manly about plummeting to their deaths.

Dave

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Likewise it gets really old constantly hearing how Obama is personally responsible for every dumb move the government has made since Teddy Roosevelt.

That opinion is in the vast minority here, so its nice you have a place to go to get away from it.

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

The Dems always lack unity. One of the things I love about them---Less of a herd mentality. The right, on the other hand, would follow their leader over a cliff, so long as he makes them feel patriotic, righteous and manly about plummeting to their deaths.

Dave

Hard to see much of that lately. The run up to the election revealed large differences of opinion on the right. The election showed how a dissenting, organized group could challenge the party leadership, and the current tax debate shows just how much difference of opinion there exists on a single issue on the right. And on the left, as, to your point, the Dems aren't unified on the tax deal either.

Its a nice dose of reality about the true state of affairs in Washington about the lack of any true "bi-partisanship", and it mostly comes from lack of a monolithic view of the world on either the right or the left, even on a single issue. Platitudes ("bi-partisanship") are nice, but reality bites.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

That opinion is in the vast minority here, so its nice you have a place to go to get away from it.

Hard to see much of that lately. The run up to the election revealed large differences of opinion on the right. The election showed how a dissenting, organized group could challenge the party leadership, and the current tax debate shows just how much difference of opinion there exists on a single issue on the right. And on the left, as, to your point, the Dems aren't unified on the tax deal either.

Its a nice dose of reality about the true state of affairs in Washington about the lack of any true "bi-partisanship", and it mostly comes from lack of a monolithic view of the world on either the right or the left, even on a single issue. Platitudes ("bi-partisanship") are nice, but reality bites.

[whell]

Whatever you say, Finn. But, just look at which side of the aisle is busy loading down the tax bill with horseshit (aka pork) to make it more palatable for various lobby groups.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

That opinion is in the vast minority here, so its nice you have a place to go to get away from it.



Hard to see much of that lately. The run up to the election revealed large differences of opinion on the right. The election showed how a dissenting, organized group could challenge the party leadership, and the current tax debate shows just how much difference of opinion there exists on a single issue on the right. And on the left, as, to your point, the Dems aren't unified on the tax deal either.

Its a nice dose of reality about the true state of affairs in Washington about the lack of any true "bi-partisanship", and it mostly comes from lack of a monolithic view of the world on either the right or the left, even on a single issue. Platitudes ("bi-partisanship") are nice, but reality bites.

You live in Michigan, right......

Around here, I doubt the president would last three minutes outside of his plane. And that happened LONG before he had a chance to sign any legislation.

Dave

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Whatever you say, Finn. But, just look at which side of the aisle is busy loading down the tax bill with horseshit (aka pork) to make it more palatable for various lobby groups.

One man's pork is another man's tofu. BTW, Obama was negotiating with congressional Republicans. They were party to the porking of the bill (to the extent that any of its contents fit the conventional definition of pork).

BTW, borrowing hundreds of billions from China to pay for rich folks' tax rates at 35% instead of 39.5% is considered pork by many. What you see depends on where you stand, blinders notwithstanding.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by finnbow

One man's pork is another man's tofu. BTW, Obama was negotiating with congressional Republicans. They were party to the porking of the bill (to the extent that any of its contents fit the conventional definition of pork).

BTW, borrowing hundreds of billions from China to pay for rich folks' tax rates at 35% instead of 39.5% is considered pork by many. What you see depends on where you stand, blinders notwithstanding.

Except that the folks who avoided the 39.5% rate have the power to do considerably more for the GOP than vote. After all that was spent on the '10 elections, the GOP owed those folks big time, and those folks own the GOP big time.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Charles

In defense of Shrub.

When he took office he inherited a recession from the Clinton era. Then he was hit with 9-11.

Now whether or not the war in Iraq was the thing to do is a matter of opinion. Regardless, the time had come to do something, and he did.

Concerning lowering taxes and increasing spending. This is considered to be the proper response to a recession, as advocated by none other than Lord Keynes himself. Of course, Keynes also advocated raising taxes and replenishing the public coffers when times are good, a thought apparently lost by BOTH parties.

And if deficit spending by the Bush administration was so bad, why is quantum deficit spending by the Obama administration so beloved? Not to mention, Obama and the Democrats have had the helm for two years, and what Bush policies have they overturned?

IMHO, one you park your ass in the big chair, you find that your options are limited. And all of the screeching from the sidelines is no more than partisan bickering.

Chas

X2! Presidents on both sides must look up at George and ask, why are people stupid?

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Likewise it gets really old constantly hearing how Obama is personally responsible for every dumb move the government has made since Teddy Roosevelt. ...

But he is.

I mean, I'm sorry, I can't hear you over how great Obama is

Since when is not raising taxes pork? Welcome to a GOP President in 2012. The left will wonder why.

Pete

[finnbow]

I guess part of my problem with the "stop blaming Dubya" argument is that Dubya did f_ck up a bunch of things (mostly the economy) almost beyond repair. For the most part, the economy has improved steadily since Obama came onboard (just not fast or dramatically enough).

Another matter is that the GOP blamed Clinton for all of Dubya's (self-made) ills for nearly Dubya's entire tenure, and then bitched when the Dem's did the same to Dubya for the first months of Obama's tenure. I recall clearly Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. declaring Iraq and Afghanistan to be Obama's wars within weeks after his inauguration, implying that the intractable nature of these wars was somehow's Obama's fault to begin with.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Since when is not raising taxes pork? Welcome to a GOP President in 2012. The left will wonder why.

Pete

And since when have Republicans actually ever done anything about it? By that, I mean actually ever done anything felt by us lowly creatures at the bottom, (Or near it)?

Dave