It's Official, Russians Corrupted The Election

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

People are cheaper in China, so there it's more people fewer robots. But robots keep getting cheaper too.

There are getting to be fewer jobs to go around, and this trend will only grow. The only actual solution is the guaranteed wage, which will fund consumption and keep the economy turning. What's the difference to the economy if the consumer's consumption is funded by work, or not? If matters only if too many freeloaders would impact the accomplishment of needed work. But if that's not the case anymore?

But don't expect the Republicans to come around to this sort of thinking for decades, if ever. Disdain for the 'lazy' may be in their genes.

Hell, I'm lazy myself. People work because they have to largely. The number of people who love their work and would do it for nothing is infinitely small.
So, if the government makes it possible for people not to work many won't. Then the people who do get pissed off for having their shit taken and redistributed. The left tells everybody that the billionaires just need to pay their fair share which is bullshit. Just aren't that many. The middle class gets banged for all of this redistribution.

And, you end up with Trump.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Kurt Vonnegut wrote about this 65 years ago, in a book called Player Piano. It has probably been 40 years since I read it, but it sticks in my mind.

Didn't stick in my mind. Need to reread it, so thinks for the link.

Interesting site the book is on....

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Hell, I'm lazy myself. People work because they have to largely. The number of people who love their work and would do it for nothing is infinitely small.
So, if the government makes it possible for people not to work many won't. Then the people who do get pissed off for having their shit taken and redistributed. The left tells everybody that the billionaires just need to pay their fair share which is bullshit. Just aren't that many. The middle class gets banged for all of this redistribution.

And, you end up with Trump.

Not everyone always behaves as you say. Lots of people volunteer in public service work. Lots of people work very hard for nothing but self-satisfaction and peer recognition, writing open source code.

One great advantage of unpaid work--you get to be autonomous and self-directed. If there's a paymaster, by contrast, there's always a whip.

Likewise, not everyone resents some portion of 'their' earnings going to provide for others. Some of the smarter ones even recognize that the portion of production that is 'theirs' is very arbitrary, and they needn't feel so possessive about it. It's unusual, but there are persons who don't gauge their self-worth by their pay rate.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Not everyone always behaves as you say. Lots of people volunteer in public service work. Lots of people work very hard for nothing but self-satisfaction and peer recognition, writing open source code.

One great advantage of unpaid work--you get to be autonomous and self-directed. If there's a paymaster, by contrast, there's always a whip.

Likewise, not everyone resents some portion of 'their' earnings going to provide for others. Some of the smarter ones even recognize that the portion of production that is 'theirs' is very arbitrary, and they needn't feel so possessive about it. It's unusual, but there are persons who don't gauge their self-worth by their pay rate.

Wait, I'm not getting a big fat check from Georgie Soros for volunteering to work the polls after all these years? Shit, I already had a cool AirStream and big assed Ford pickup all picked out so I could tour the country in style during my 'Golden Years'.

Patti is going to be pissed when I tell her.

[MrPots]

I think our modern capitalistic system is responsible for so many dissatisfied workers. One used to work the farm or have his/her own trade, now million toil their lives away woking for harsh and uncaring overseers with no hope of ever getting ahead, all the while making other people obscenely rich.

If the rewards of that work were spread more equitably it would make a difference, but a very small portion of people are taking an overlarge share of the pie.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Not everyone always behaves as you say. Lots of people volunteer in public service work. Lots of people work very hard for nothing but self-satisfaction and peer recognition, writing open source code.

One great advantage of unpaid work--you get to be autonomous and self-directed. If there's a paymaster, by contrast, there's always a whip.

Likewise, not everyone resents some portion of 'their' earnings going to provide for others. Some of the smarter ones even recognize that the portion of production that is 'theirs' is very arbitrary, and they needn't feel so possessive about it. It's unusual, but there are persons who don't gauge their self-worth by their pay rate.

I know retired people who drive for cancer patients, dialysis , that type thing.

But, they have made the money necessary to provide for themselves.

You talk about people who have nothing and work for nothing I'm like the blind man, I'd rather see it than hear tell of it.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

I know retired people who drive for cancer patients, dialysis , that type thing.

But, they have made the money necessary to provide for themselves.

You talk about people who have nothing and work for nothing I'm like the blind man, I'd rather see it than hear tell of it.

The way I'd like to set things up, no one will 'have nothing.' Everyone will have enough to live on, for starters.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The way I'd like to set things up, no one will 'have nothing.' Everyone will have enough to live on, for starters.

Where is the incentive to work then? On this topic I am more aligned with Zero, if people do not need to work, most won't. And most people if they can get away without doing much at work will.

Then there is the instance where there is a group of five people, let's say the work load increased to justify ten, so you add five more people to the group. Later the workload halves, the ten people will look busy doing five people's work. This has been proven time and time again and probably what happens in government establishments where people cannot be fired, or in behemoth companies where the manager's salary is based on the number of people he/she supervises. This is why large companies typically have massive layoffs, eventually payroll does not justify the revenues.

From my experience, people work because they need to work, not because they want to or like. When some one tells me they love their job my usual response is "would you work if you didn't have to?". I usually get a blank expression.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

if people do not need to work, most won't.

You're Goddamned right, and I'm one of them.

Originally Posted by Rajoo

And most people if they can get away without doing much at work will.

You're Goddamned right again. Why do you think I spent 35 years "working" for the government?

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

You're Goddamned right, and I'm one of them.



You're Goddamned right again. Why do you think I spent 35 years "working" for the government?

I was a consultant for a Canadian company whose owner owner refused to hire any ex-government employee or someone who worked for a large company. Absolutely no exceptions. I am now a dedicated convert.