rudy giuliani

[piece-itpete]

I agree that crack is not as bad as it was. But it didn't just go away on its own.

Pete

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by JonL

If you recall the pre-Giuliani days, there was a pervasive sense of chaos and lawlessness, where the city was teetering on a knife edge of functionality. There was graffiti everywhere. One couldn't stop their car at a traffic light without being accosted by the squeegee people who essentially would shake you down for money while trapped at the light. . Women (and men) had their jewelry ripped from their bodies on the subway or just walking down the street. Not a single car in Manhattan had a radio in it -- it had either already been stolen, or the owner wanted to prevent their window from being smashed in the process of the radio being stolen. Sometimes it didn't help, 'cause the would-be thief didn't notice that the radio was already gone..

a few corrections

<<<<<<there was a pervasive sense of chaos and lawlessness,>>>>>>

yes but this was from the mid 60's to the mid 80's. Koch started the transformation.

<<<<<<<There was graffiti everywhere.>>>>>>>>>>>

this was eradicated under Koch in the 80's. Specifically the subways which is where it was at its most visible


<<<<<<<<<<<One couldn't stop their car at a traffic light without being accosted by the squeegee people who essentially would shake you down for money while trapped at the light.>>>>>>>>>

In deed, these are the homeless people that Rudy, in his christen way had removed. Sorry if this sounds harsh but not for nothing what was so hard about saying no to them???? I never had any trouble what so ever but I do know that this intimidation thing was a common complaint. I just can't and couldn't see how a struggling hungry human offering a service could be viewed as a threat. That is all I will say on this.

<<<<<<<<<<People were being killed for their sneakers>>>>>>>>>>
nothing has changed (and I am not kidding)

<<<<<<<<<<<<Women (and men) had their jewelry ripped from their bodies on the subway or just walking down the street>>>>>>>>>

Completely true but again for the most part this goes back to the mid 60's to mid 80's period. Rudy gets absolutely no credit for this. This turned out to be a very high risk move for the thieves so this tactic died a natural death.


<<<<<<<<<<Not a single car in Manhattan had a radio in it>>>>>>>>>>

Of course this is silly but again your timeline is wrong and the reason it no longer occurs as often as it did has nothing to do with Rudy. Good grief.


and as to the wilding rampages you eluded to, do you really believe these kids were afraid of Rudy so they got together and said, hey guys lets stop?????


But, as with ou Rudy convinced many that this was all his doing.

BTW, good recall on NYC.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I agree that crack is not as bad as it was. But it didn't just go away on its own.

Pete

Pete, you tell me then how Rudy stopped and then reversed the proliferation of crack across the entire country as NY mayor.

Thanks

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by noonereal

Pete with all respect crack is not nearly as bad an epidemic as it was and the downturn in crime across america is one result. This is fact. I am not gonna take the time to google it for you but you can easily validate this for yourself if you care to.

I live and work in Brooklyn and Queens, NY for 15 years. My job took me all over both areas and I observed the dramatic drop in crack usuage. The quality of life returned when crack use went down dramatically...now I park my working vehicle without fear in lot of areas which I would not dare do so previously. Yea petty theft took a dive. When crack was in you could not walk in Bedford Stuy. Now white people are moving into Bedford Stuy and many other areas of Brooklyn which were once no go areas for sane people.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by noonereal

<<<<<<<<<<<One couldn't stop their car at a traffic light without being accosted by the squeegee people who essentially would shake you down for money while trapped at the light.>>>>>>>>>

In deed, these are the homeless people that Rudy, in his christen way had removed. Sorry if this sounds harsh but not for nothing what was so hard about saying no to them???? I never had any trouble what so ever but I do know that this intimidation thing was a common complaint. I just can't and couldn't see how a struggling hungry human offering a service could be viewed as a threat. That is all I will say on this.

Rudy was right in taking these people off the streets. A lot of people were intimidated by them not only because of the sometimes overt threat but the implied one.

[piece-itpete]

I never said he stopped crack use. Draconian jail sentences for dealers did it.

Pete

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I never said he stopped crack use. Draconian jail sentences for dealers did it.

Pete

you didn't? it sure sounded like you did

I'll leave this thread die but tough sentences do not change things like this.

[Dondilion]

My major peeve with Giuliani was his pimping of 9/11 dispite his making a major security goof: He went ahead and installed the Emergency Command Center in the World Trade Center in spite of the strong objections of the New York Police Department and other qualified security experts. Of course when WTC went down he lost his commmand center. Now this guy is all over the world touting himself as a security expert base on his 9/11 photo ops.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Rudy was right in taking these people off the streets. A lot of people were intimidated by them not only because of the sometimes overt threat but the implied one.

If someone was intimidated by them they needed to confront their fear.
Many people were afraid of blacks when I was a youth should we have taken them off the streets and placed them in camps.
This is just a terrible argument for forcibly removing people from the streets.
The problem here is the people who felt intimidated. I would have much prefered that they were forcible removed and sent to poor awareness classes rather than victimizing again the poorest among us.
BTW what was this implied threat????
What did I miss EVERYDAY as I passed through these people for years?

[piece-itpete]

You're a decent guy noone

Draconian sentences DID cut down on crack, or should I say, at least drove up prices.

Pete