rudy giuliani

[bhunter]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

This looks like impact:



I always wanted to visit NYC. Was it an OK place to live?

Pete

I'm with Finnbow on this one. Murders declined almost everywhere. I never cared for Rudy. He does have a knack for being at the right place at the right for his endless self-promotion.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by bhunter

I'm with Finnbow on this one. Murders declined almost everywhere. I never cared for Rudy. He does have a knack for being at the right place at the right for his endless self-promotion.

the murder rate in all large cities dropped dramatically as crack cocaine use had a decline

this had nothing to do with any mayors nor law endorsement agencies

this was a natural decline as people could see the intense damage crack did

BTW, the reduction in murders did not effect the middle class or upper class neighborhoods in NCY, nor did effect the tourist areas, it affected the inner city areas

that's where drug murders take place

this entire discussion is ridiculous, rudy did nothing as mayor to quell crime

that argument is and was a load of crap

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

This looks like impact:



I always wanted to visit NYC. Was it an OK place to live?

Pete

see the post above for an explanation of this chart

as to living in nyc, it was great, just great


another completely wonderful place to live, Hoboken or jersey city

that said, i think you need a rather uncommon personality to love nyc life so

i even love driving in nyc, still do, always did

[piece-itpete]

I've never heard anyone say they liked driving there lol.

I've heard it described as a trading post, almost seperate from the US.

I've got to take issue with crack fading out on itself. If true meth should've faded long ago.

Pete

[JonL]

in around 1984 - 85, my girlfriend at the time (and future ex-wife) lived on E. 83rd street, and I spent a lot of time there. My daughter is now in college in Manhattan and lives up near Harlem. I've also lived most of my life within half an hour or so of NYC and have visited very often, first time with a friend and no parents at age 12 which would have been 1971. Though I was never an actual resident myself, I've seen firsthand the changes NYC has undergone.

I can't stand Giuliani, and I think many (if not most) NYers share that sentiment. I agree with most everything that's been said about him in this thread, but I would have to give him a great deal of credit for putting the city on the path to greater safety in all neighborhoods. I don't think he set out to improve life in the poorer areas, but I think his actions had that effect anyway.

If you recall the pre-Giuliani days, there was a pervasive sense of chaos and lawlessness, where the city was teetering on a knife edge of functionality. There was graffiti everywhere. One couldn't stop their car at a traffic light without being accosted by the squeegee people who essentially would shake you down for money while trapped at the light. People were being killed for their sneakers. Women (and men) had their jewelry ripped from their bodies on the subway or just walking down the street. Not a single car in Manhattan had a radio in it -- it had either already been stolen, or the owner wanted to prevent their window from being smashed in the process of the radio being stolen. Sometimes it didn't help, 'cause the would-be thief didn't notice that the radio was already gone.

Women jogging in Central Park were attacked by gangs of teens, raped repeatedly, beaten to within an inch of their lives, and left for dead.

After dark, prostitutes took over Times Square, the area near the Queensboro Bridge approach in Queens, and I'm sure many other areas. Sex clubs advertised openly with provocative images plastered on every light pole and bus stop shelter.

Remember Bernie Goetz? His actions were appalling, shooting several black teens (some in the back) because he felt they were threatening him on the subway. While I don't condone his actions one iota, I understand them. There was so much senseless violence, so many muggings, and so much street crime... and a perception that most of this was perpetrated by young black men and teens, that there was a pervasive racism and fear of black youths.

Ethnic tensions spiraled out of control into riots that were allowed to continue for days.

Into this morass came Giuliani. He focused on "quality of life" issues. He got rid of the squeegee people. He clamped down on turnstile jumpers in the subways, rightly recognizing that most crime on the subways was not perpetrated by paying riders. He cleaned up the graffiti.

What he really accomplished though, was changing the public's mindset from one of resignation and acceptance that the crime we had become accustomed to was just an inherent part of city life in the 1980s. And my own opinion is that this change in mindset was no where more important than in the ghettos, poor communities, and projects. People there had been terrorized by their own even more than was the rest of the city. Giuliani fostered an atmosphere where people could see that it didn't have to be chaos and violence, that there was hope, and that attitude helped turn the tide.

Giuliani's tactics were tough, and became even more Gestapo-like as time went on. Other factors surely helped to maintain the decline in crime rate - things like the reduction in crack cocaine use, the general economic boom in the '90s, the gentrification of neighborhoods. Ultimately, Giuliani failed to adjust his tactics and dictatorial style to match the needs of the times, and people came to dislike him. Crime continues to be low despite the very tough economic times. I think crime is low because far fewer people now will accept criminality or victimhood as lifestyle choices when living in NYC. For that shift in attitude, I have to give a lot of credit to Giuliani.

I'm sure I'm not alone in having some romanticized memories of the old days. There was an edginess and excitement about places like Times Square with the hookers and drug dealers and sex shops all over the place. The city was raucous, rough-and-tumble. It was a 24 hour/7 day a week place that was buzzing all the time. It's not like that anymore. It's much more sedate, much more "normal" if you will. Overall, however, I'm glad for the change.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I've got to take issue with crack fading out on itself. If true meth should've faded long ago.

Pete

I do not know much about meth, but the effect of crack was so overwhelmingly evident in a negative way that even in the deep inner city, overtime nobody wanted to be termed a "crackhead".

[JonL]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I've never heard anyone say they liked driving there lol.

I've heard it described as a trading post, almost seperate from the US.

I've got to take issue with crack fading out on itself. If true meth should've faded long ago.

Pete

I like driving there, too. Especially in a small car with a responsive engine and a stick shift.

[piece-itpete]

I hope to take the land yacht there someday

Don, right now in the innercity there are plenty of folks smoking crack. They didn't get the memo

Meths' as bad, fyi.

Pete

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I always wanted to visit NYC. Was it an OK place to live?

Pete

I'm applying for a job there, so I hope to find out.

My brother and his SO have lived in Manhattan for around 30 years. They now pay about as much to garage their car as we pay for a house payment. They love living in the city, but generally go to their country house every weekend.

Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I've never heard anyone say they liked driving there lol.

I've heard it described as a trading post, almost seperate from the US.

I've got to take issue with crack fading out on itself. If true meth should've faded long ago.

Pete

Pete with all respect crack is not nearly as bad an epidemic as it was and the downturn in crime across america is one result. This is fact. I am not gonna take the time to google it for you but you can easily validate this for yourself if you care to.