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We appreciate your help
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05-12-2014, 11:08 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Diego via Vermilion Ohio and Points Between
Posts: 11,538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCricket
Nothing, in fact that is how it should work. My point, and I failed to make it clear, we were responsible to make it work. We were not supposed to give to another person and hope they would make it work. So giving it to a third party and then saying I did my part was not acceptable. Looking at the people in need and doing everything you can to help was our responsibility, not the government's or the churches' or anyone else's.
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So are you against the government helping people with our taxes?
I mean we should use everything at our disposal.
__________________
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
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05-12-2014, 11:30 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerets
The government is the people! I don't trust if left up to people in general to give equally to those who have needs. Will be selective in the conception of needs. Either subconsciously or intended. By what church you go to, ethnicity, race, economic level, education level age ect......
Barney
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And, that is the crux of the biscuit. Of course Republicans will send all of their donations to the wealthiest and most highly advantaged.......because they need our help. And the disadvantaged are on their own because they need to learn to lift themselves up. After all, they did it to themselves, anyways.........
Dave
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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05-12-2014, 11:31 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Derby City U.S.A.
Posts: 8,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
So are you against the government helping people with our taxes?
I mean we should use everything at our disposal.
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Exactly! I have no problem with my taxes helping others in need. My problem is the giving to our elected officials and contractors unchecked.
Barney
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05-12-2014, 11:39 AM
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AKA Sister Mary JJ
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Upper East Tennessee
Posts: 5,897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCricket
Nothing, in fact that is how it should work. My point, and I failed to make it clear, we were responsible to make it work. We were not supposed to give to another person and hope they would make it work. So giving it to a third party and then saying I did my part was not acceptable. Looking at the people in need and doing everything you can to help was our responsibility, not the government's or the churches' or anyone else's.
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Exactly! Think about how much more you would have in your pocket to use to help others, that you can see with your own eyes need help, rather than send it off to the government where it gets whittled down, then put into programs rife with corruption.
__________________
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please." (Mark Twain)
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05-12-2014, 11:49 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Diego via Vermilion Ohio and Points Between
Posts: 11,538
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I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.
__________________
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
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05-12-2014, 12:10 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: colorado
Posts: 1,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
So are you against the government helping people with our taxes?I mean we should use everything at our disposal.
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Not at all. I just don't think the political environment will allow us to be effective in that manner. Too many people are corrupt, too many people hate the idea of helping others when they are struggling themselves(understandably), to many people trying to decide what a need is and how to meet it. I just do not see how, in our current legal system and political environment, a government could possibly fill the gap. If it could I would be all for it. I still am for it. I just do not think I can pay my taxes and then wash my hands of the responsibility of my neighbors welfare.
And I do understand, this would take a cultural shift to accomplish what I think should be. And yes I know I am dreaming and it is likely to never be a viable economic system or political system.
__________________
Instead of a debate, how about a discussion? I want to learn, I don't care about winning.
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05-12-2014, 12:12 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: colorado
Posts: 1,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.
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Kudo's to you!!!!!!
Honesty will always get my respect. I do think that if the taxes were less, and the economic system wasn't one powered by greed(I work for me to have more), you would have more and you would help those in need if you saw it.
__________________
Instead of a debate, how about a discussion? I want to learn, I don't care about winning.
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05-12-2014, 12:20 PM
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Persona non grata
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 12,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.
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I gave some homeless looking Dude standing at an intersection where I had stopped a $5 Bill the other day. I'm under no illusions that it helped him any, just allayed my guilt momentarily.
That's basically what most charity giving amounts to.
An excuse to pat yourself on the back.
Like the local church having a bake sale and presenting some family with $186 to help towards their kid's $300,000 medical bills.
Big Fucken Deal.
That's why the government needs to have programs to help the unfortunate.
__________________
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
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05-12-2014, 01:19 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Diego via Vermilion Ohio and Points Between
Posts: 11,538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCricket
Kudo's to you!!!!!!
Honesty will always get my respect. I do think that if the taxes were less, and the economic system wasn't one powered by greed(I work for me to have more), you would have more and you would help those in need if you saw it.
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No I think I would either save the money or spend it on stereos.Or gas.
Do not get me wrong charity is great...but it does not come close to the government saftey net in effectiveness. Our nation has its problems but sort of poo-pooing the ability of our government to solve problems by implying it is corrupt sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me. If Sister Mary is agreeing with you I know I am not in the wrong on this score.
__________________
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
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05-12-2014, 01:23 PM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.
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You know, speaking for myself, I guess it does break down to a bit of a lack of self discipline. I am somewhat the same way. In fact, I used to give generously to United Way through payroll deduction, until corruption there came to light. At that, I stopped. I'm thinking that I don't mind giving, but if it's up to me to remember to write a check every week, it isn't happening....
The same goes for my retirement savings. They take it straight out of my check, I never see the money, I never have think of it.....So it gets done and thank goodness for that.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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