Republican National Security Debate

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Just remember it takes a village. I'd rather fight there than here. It's necessary to be a watchdog because the interconnectedness between economies requires it. I can't see isolationism working for very long before other state actors turn back towards nationalism. I'd tend to think that our diversity and acceptance of others here demonstrates that we aren't overtly more xenophobic than most other nations.

Perhaps, we ought charge a fee for our international policing, since we incur costs for actions that benefit other nations. Obviously, determining a fee structure would be difficult.

I could go along with that. Maybe just a flat rate, based on population size? Say, $1,000 a head per year? If they don't pay, we get Fox to thoroughly demonize them, then we start dropping bombs until they cough up the cash..

The mafia calls it "protection money". If it works in Youngstown, it could work on the international scale.

Dave

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Just remember it takes a village. I'd rather fight there than here. It's necessary to be a watchdog because the interconnectedness between economies requires it. I can't see isolationism working for very long before other state actors turn back towards nationalism. I'd tend to think that our diversity and acceptance of others here demonstrates that we aren't overtly more xenophobic than most other nations.

Perhaps, we ought charge a fee for our international policing, since we incur costs for actions that benefit other nations. Obviously, determining a fee structure would be difficult.

Having a marine base in the middle of town benefuts Okinawa? Somehow the folks there do not believe that it does.

Invading Iraq was a benefit? Not to Iraq and not to the more than 4000 who died in that hell hole. The over 30,000 who left parts of their bodies there sure did not benefit.

[Bigerik]

Charge a fee? For what? Invading other countries? You talk as if they WANT us over there.

Don't you guys recall WHY 9/11 happened? It wasn't the crap Bush made up about hating our lifestyle and freedom and democracy. It was because our troops were in their holy land.

[BlueStreak]

Erik---sarcasm.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

The vast majority of our many overseas bases are there by invitation. It's not xenophopia, unless every single President since WW2 was xenophobic. It's for peace, stability, and it's worked. Pax Americana has already been assured of its' proper place in history books.

It'll be sad when it's over.

Pete

[bhunter]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Having a marine base in the middle of town benefuts Okinawa? Somehow the folks there do not believe that it does.

Invading Iraq was a benefit? Not to Iraq and not to the more than 4000 who died in that hell hole. The over 30,000 who left parts of their bodies there sure did not benefit.

I'm not necessarily talking about Iraq, though, I do think that ultimately Iraq will be seen as a good decision.

I would say that the U.S. international presence has helped stabilize international relations before and, more importantly, after the fall of the USSR. In an international economy, it is crucial to all to keep the flow of both finished and precursor goods moving. One wonders how quickly far more costly warfare would occur if the U.S. didn't project power. Do I think we are beyond reproach in specific operations? No, but I do believe we at least attempt to minimize damages and do the proper thing under most circumstances. That, in itself, is something beyond the thought of most belligerent states either today or historically.

[bhunter]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

Charge a fee? For what? Invading other countries? You talk as if they WANT us over there.

Don't you guys recall WHY 9/11 happened? It wasn't the crap Bush made up about hating our lifestyle and freedom and democracy. It was because our troops were in their holy land.

They'd be fighting regardless of who was there. The oil is a needed commodity. Oh, BTW, they do hate the West's lifestyle and have a world view of barbarisms from, say, the Middle Ages. Remember they've been killing one another over their "peaceful religion" since then. The idea that they are only violent because of the U.S. is absurd given their well documented history. And yes, some of the violence involved the West, most notably, the crusades and the battles with the great Saladin.

[bhunter]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I could go along with that. Maybe just a flat rate, based on population size? Say, $1,000 a head per year? If they don't pay, we get Fox to thoroughly demonize them, then we start dropping bombs until they cough up the cash..

The mafia calls it "protection money". If it works in Youngstown, it could work on the international scale.

Dave

I never called for an extortion scheme, but rather that, some countries expect the U.S. to provide at least a proportion of their security, thus alleviating them of some of the expense. They ought pay their "fair share" for that help. Take a look at the military expenditures per person of all the Northern EU countries that have been doing economically well over the last, say, four decades. Note that France is an exception. Those nations spend less than a quarter of what we do per person. I do not think one can argue that these countries are bastions of enlightened peace given the history.

[Rex E.]

I'm not so sure we need more than the western hemisphere to survive. If we (and the rest of the Americas) turned our back on the rest of the world save for North, Central and South America we'd be doing just fine. Plenty of oil, plenty of resources that could be used on this side of the world instead of sending there.......

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

The vast majority of our many overseas bases are there by invitation. It's not xenophopia, unless every single President since WW2 was xenophobic. It's for peace, stability, and it's worked. Pax Americana has already been assured of its' proper place in history books.

It'll be sad when it's over.

Pete

Not the leadership, Pete, the people. Having seen a big chunk of the rest of the world, it amazes me just how many people have a warped notion of what life is like out there. My extensive travel during my time in the Navy is one of the things that changed my way of thinking---forever. I learned that even some of my dearest friends and family, especially in that jerkwater hick town I grew up in, are totally clueless. They've never been outside our borders, have a very poor understanding of the "outside" and don't care to go out there and see for themselves. (Whatever they need to know, they can learn from Glenn Beck, I guess.)----That's Xenophobia. And the politicians exploit it.

Dave