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08-05-2010, 02:40 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
I thought this whole GM bailout thing was about creating good paying jobs in America.
Why should the taxpayer be on the hook for billions so that they can invest in China or Mexico?
Chas
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The bailout was to keep the American auto industry solvent. The US auto industry, when solvent, has long employed people overseas (Canada, Germany). The Chinese and Mexican workers in GM plants will presumably earn a living wage that will allow them to buy GM products, thereby helping with solvency. They will also use their wages to buy other American products.
I guess my point was that in today's shrinking world, we cannot bitch too loudly about American auto companies building cars overseas when at the same time we lobby to get BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, and Honda to build cars here. What goes around comes around.
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As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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08-05-2010, 03:26 PM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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All those foreign auto manufacturers were offered $$$ or tax breaks to come hear, didn't hear a lot of taxpayers bitching.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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08-05-2010, 03:41 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
The bailout was to keep the American auto industry solvent. The US auto industry, when solvent, has long employed people overseas (Canada, Germany). The Chinese and Mexican workers in GM plants will presumably earn a living wage that will allow them to buy GM products, thereby helping with solvency. They will also use their wages to buy other American products.
I guess my point was that in today's shrinking world, we cannot bitch too loudly about American auto companies building cars overseas when at the same time we lobby to get BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, and Honda to build cars here. What goes around comes around.
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And they could have taken Chapter 11 instead of leaving the taxpayer on the hook.
I'm beginning to realize that the difference between a good multinational and an evil multinational is that the good one has been funded by the treasury and the evil one pays it's own way.
Tax incentives are an efficient way of attracting industry, loaning money to deadbeats isn't.
Chas
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08-05-2010, 04:54 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
And they could have taken Chapter 11 instead of leaving the taxpayer on the hook.
I'm beginning to realize that the difference between a good multinational and an evil multinational is that the good one has been funded by the treasury and the evil one pays it's own way.
Tax incentives are an efficient way of attracting industry, loaning money to deadbeats isn't.
Chas
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I hear ya. However, the pragmatic part of me says that if we can ultimately sell GM stock and make a profit on the deal while saving hundreds of thousands of jobs, all is good. However, the stock price of GM may need to head a bit north for my pragmatic dream to pan out.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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08-05-2010, 05:30 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
I hear ya. However, the pragmatic part of me says that if we can ultimately sell GM stock and make a profit on the deal while saving hundreds of thousands of jobs, all is good. However, the stock price of GM may need to head a bit north for my pragmatic dream to pan out.
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I'll admit, I have no illusions about multinationals. Of course, GM has always held the perception of being the "American Corporation", even while they were building vehicles for Hitler. Of course, Standard Oil was selling him high octane gas for his FE109's. And we wouldn't want to forget Henry Ford.
Now I'm not too sure as to exactly what happened in the GM bailout. I understand the bondholders just got screwed. I do remember Barry saying something to the effect of, "We don't need investors to build automobiles, we need workers."
I suspect that the GM bailout was nothing more than another way to shovel more money to the bankers.
And I don't care if the only way GM can balance the books is by selling melamine Buicks to the Chinamen. I just fear that they'll wind up importing them back over here and destroying what is left of the domestic auto manufacturing base.
And what are they doing in North America? Producing the Volt, a dud that no one wants and trying to sell it for twice what it's worth to boot. And they even admit they'll lose money on every one.
Now I understand how a loss leader works, but they ain't selling green beans for 50 cents a can at the A&P.
Looks to me that the taxpayer is on the hook for a lot of buxs, and GM is still playing the old sausage game.
It's just not working out like it's supposed to.
Just some simple thoughts from a simple person.
Chas
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08-06-2010, 07:08 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
Tax incentives are an efficient way of attracting industry, loaning money to deadbeats isn't.
Chas
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Sure, and then those industries that pay little or no local taxes bitch about what a poor job our schools do (that you and I fund). Screw Toyota and the horse they rode in on.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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08-06-2010, 12:45 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
Sure, and then those industries that pay little or no local taxes bitch about what a poor job our schools do (that you and I fund). Screw Toyota and the horse they rode in on.
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App 75% of our county taxes go towards the school, the county government lives off of the rest.
Chas
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08-06-2010, 01:01 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
App 75% of our county taxes go towards the school, the county government lives off of the rest.
Chas
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What share of the county's revenue comes from businesses and corporations?
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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08-06-2010, 02:36 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
What share of the county's revenue comes from businesses and corporations?
John
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This I do not know. It's not published yearly in the local paper like the county budget. Kind of like they don't publish the county's CAFR.
I suppose the only way I could access that information would be to go to the county treasurer's office and ask to look at the books. And I'm in no hurry to stir up a shitstorm with me being the primary turd.
I have mentioned the CAFR in polite conversation with people who have knowledge of it, and the conversation turned cold both times.
I've come to the conclusion that there is no percentage in arousing the local fathers since I live here.
Chas
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08-06-2010, 02:40 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
I have mentioned the CAFR in polite conversation with people who have knowledge of it, and the conversation turned cold both times.
I've come to the conclusion that there is no percentage in arousing the local fathers since I live here.
Chas
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You're a wise man, Chas.
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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