Alas, Kiev.

[BigElCat]

In the last couple of weeks, I noticed that Kiev is now spelled Kyiv.

I did a google search, and sure enough, it wasn't my imagination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNo...tch%20spelling.

Gee Whiz.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it seems that General Patton was correct in his assessment of Russia in 1945. He wanted to destroy the Soviets at that time.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

In the last couple of weeks, I noticed that Kiev is now spelled Kyiv.

I did a google search, and sure enough, it wasn't my imagination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNo...tch%20spelling.

Gee Whiz.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it seems that General Patton was correct in his assessment of Russia in 1945. He wanted to destroy the Soviets at that time.

By implication: He wanted to destroy Ukraine.

[nailer]

I'll be spinning some ELP in memory.

Pushing the Red Army back over the 8/39 border would have been the goal and we'd have gotten our collective asses kicked.

If Europe is afraid of Putin/Russia they have the populace and wealth to handle it. I'm all for the US being a mediator, but it's not our fight. The CCCP no longer exists. Biden needs to focus on our homeland.

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by nailer

I'll be spinning some ELP in memory.

Pushing the Red Army back over the 8/39 border would have been the goal and we'd have gotten our collective asses kicked.

If Europe is afraid of Putin/Russia they have the populace and wealth to handle it. I'm all for the US being a mediator, but it's not our fight. The CCCP no longer exists. Biden needs to focus on our homeland.

That's laughable. You're obviously not knowledgeable of WW2 military capabilities.

As for the US military becoming involved in Europe now to dissuade Russian aggression, that's unlikely. However, the US will aid our friends and allies, and rightly so.

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by nailer

Pushing the Red Army back over the 8/39 border would have been the goal and we'd have gotten our collective asses kicked.

No.

It would have been the USA all the way. Montgomery and his boys could have gone home. The entire Soviet war machine was there; George could have dismantled it on the way back to the border.

Truman could have brought a couple of B-29s out of Burma, dropped 'Beulah Ballbreaker' on Moscow, 'Big Helga' on some industrial target.

Skipped the Cold War altogether.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

By implication: He wanted to destroy Ukraine.

Putin doesn't want to destroy Ukraine. He needs the Ukraine economy, he needs the Ukraine wealth of natural resources, he needs, more than anything to keep Ukraine out of the European Union.

All this babbling about NATO membership is a purposeful distraction. NATO membership of Ukraine doesn't hurt Russia...it probably doesn't hurt Putin all that much, outside of his feeble, fragile Trump-like ego.

What this is about is Ukraine EU membership which would be just another nail in coffin of the already half-dead Russian economy. It's their own fault, of course...all the benefits of whatever Russian economy there is...go directly to the oligarchs that control all of it, and to their partnership with Putin which keeps the billions rolling in to them and keeps Putin in the power and control required to soothe his pathetic, pre-adolescent ego. From day one of the fall of the Soviet Union...none of the benefits of their newly "free" economy has ever trickled down to the average Russian.

There's something wrong with Russians. They get out from under the despotism of the monarchy, only to trade it in for the despostism of the "communist" state, only to trade it in for the despotism of this fucking autocrat. It's one despot after another in Russia. Russians are like a chronically abused kid who's been the victim of maltreatment for so long that he thinks there's something wrong if daddy isn't whipping his ass with a belt every day.

"Every nation gets the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre

Part of my social work job for a few years while I was finishing my master's degree was to handle refugee cases through an agency partnership with World Relief. Tough work...what the hell can I do for a poor Cambodian guy who is the only remaining living member of a family of three generations? Anyway...and this was in the years just prior to the fall of the USSR, I provided services to a number of Russian immigrants/refugees. Several of the Russian women were quite frank about their experiences with and attitudes toward Russian men. A common theme was "I like American men...Russian men are drunk assholes."

[Oerets]

Whenever sizing up any opponent of a potential fight. One of the first things to consider, is how far will it go. What the consequences could be. Will they back down or fight to the death. All talk or willing to go all the way.

I see this as a fight to the death for Putin. He sees this as a fight for survival. The west as weak, not willing to bloody themselves.

Only a very strong united front put forth by the west will get his attention. He took the Crimeia and nothing happened, still there. Took over other portions of Ukrainian territory nothing happened, still there....

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Oerets

Whenever sizing up any opponent of a potential fight. One of the first things to consider, is how far will it go. What the consequences could be. Will they back down or fight to the death. All talk or willing to go all the way.

I see this as a fight to the death for Putin. He sees this as a fight for survival. The west as weak, not willing to bloody themselves.

Only a very strong united front put forth by the west will get his attention. He took the Crimeia and nothing happened, still there. Took over other portions of Ukrainian territory nothing happened, still there....

And why would the west bloody itself for Ukraine?

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

And why would the west bloody itself for Ukraine?

To stop evil from spreading. To help a country that made a choice (1994) to give up it's nukes willingly with assurances they would be protected. IIRC!

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Oerets

To stop evil from spreading. To help a country that made a choice (1994) to give up it's nukes willingly with assurances they would be protected. IIRC!

Some view this fairly modern construct as a country not worthy of their blood.

1) very corrupt.
2) held hostage by right-wing militias.
3) has serious divisions often related to language and area.
4) that it is a 5 billion dollar project gone awry despite the warning of Henry Kissinger.