The Biden Economy

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Of course Reagan also raised SSA/Medicare taxes. A regressive hit on the working class, capped to hold the wealthy harmless. That alone should make him a truly hated president, but he was Teflon Ron.

Indeed. The GOP is all about messaging, not policy/actions:

They claim to be budget hawks while trashing the budget.

They claim to be for free speech, but ban books.

They claim to be for law and order, but whine like babies when Republicans are prosecuted for crimes.

They claim to Back the Blue, but excuse brutalizing Capitol Police

They praise the Constitution and then attempt to overthrow the government.

The believe in freedom of religion, but only for Evangelicals.

They believe in democracy while suppressing the vote.

They believe in freedom of the press, but only for wingnut propagandists.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Of course Reagan also raised SSA/Medicare taxes. A regressive hit on the working class, capped to hold the wealthy harmless. That alone should make him a truly hated president, but he was Teflon Ron.

Uncle Ronnie!

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Of course Reagan also raised SSA/Medicare taxes. A regressive hit on the working class, capped to hold the wealthy harmless. That alone should make him a truly hated president, but he was Teflon Ron.

Graham-Rudman ended dental care for vets and dependents under him.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by nailer

Pretty sure we'd be pretty much in the same place deficit wise if Clinton had won in '16. Possibly even a tad worse.

-$1.5T from the Middle Class tax cuts.

Perhaps the Covid bailout funds would have been better managed considering both '08 TARP and '18 CARES act was grossly mismanaged (large amounts of money simply disappeared).

[Rajoo]

To put things in perspective,

US Government debt = $31 Trillion

US Household debt = $16.9 Trillion

Since majority of this debt is due to mortgages, the underlying debt will be considered part of our nation's assets at MSU?

On second thoughts, is this $16.9 Trillion household debt part of the national debt?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/16/econo...ter/index.html

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

So, the 25% figure is indeed correct with added context. The other key point is that during Trumps term, Congress extended the debt limit 3 times without preconditions. Why did you fail to acknowledge that?

So, the 25% would have been correct if no one occupied the White House during that time. That's the point. You're efforts to affix blame notwithstanding, a good chunk of that was COVID relief that Biden extended.

Your current fixation on extending the debt ceiling also ignores the central point that our current course is not sustainable. There are many folks out there, me included, who look at the episodic raising of the debt ceiling without any accompanying efforts to enforce some spending discipline as kicking the can down the road. We're starting to run out of road.

Also, the debt limit was reached a month ago, and in spite of the Dem's gloom and doom messaging about government shutdowns and grandma panhandling in Times Square because she didn't get her Social Security check, we're all still alive and kicking.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

To put things in perspective,

US Government debt = $31 Trillion

US Household debt = $16.9 Trillion

Since majority of this debt is due to mortgages, the underlying debt will be considered part of our nation's assets at MSU?

On second thoughts, is this $16.9 Trillion household debt part of the national debt?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/16/econo...ter/index.html

Yes, most of the $16.9 Trillion is mortgages. The average debt is about $165K per household. With housing prices inflating over the past few years, the $165K is not a surprising number.

Since the Gov't backs about 30% of home loans, the US taxpayer would potentially be on the hook for any of those loans that defaulted. Since 2008, we've gotten the gov't out of the subprime mortgage game, so hopefully, the default risk is lower than it was in 2008.

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Of course Reagan also raised SSA/Medicare taxes. A regressive hit on the working class, capped to hold the wealthy harmless. That alone should make him a truly hated president, but he was Teflon Ron.

Not sure what you're talking about here. SSA and Medicare are funded via a payroll tax that is paid jointly by the employer and the employee. It has ALWAYS had caps based on yearly W-2 earnings. Also, the base wage has increased every year since 1972. They are automatically adjusted annually by statue.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/cbb.html

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Your current fixation on extending the debt ceiling also ignores the central point that our current course is not sustainable. There are many folks out there, me included, who look at the episodic raising of the debt ceiling without any accompanying efforts to enforce some spending discipline as kicking the can down the road. We're starting to run out of road.

And you continue to conflate extending the debt ceiling with the size of the budget deficit. Threatening to default on our sovereign debt represents a refusal to pay for government expenses already Congressionally approved and incurred and has no bearing on the level of debt, other than it will actually increase the debt as the cost of government borrowing will go up if debt-based government securities become less secure. This makes exactly as much sense as thinking that refusing to pay your credit card bill will reduce the amount you owe to the credit card company.

You are so gullible as to believe that the GOP actually cares about the debt while at the same time you defend their irresponsible tax cut that increased the debt by nearly $2 trillion. This makes about as much sense as Matt Gaetz saying that he is deeply concerned about sex trafficking or Donald Trump saying he cares about election integrity (while awaiting indictment for election fraud).

In effect, Republicans are threatening to increase the debt (by increasing the cost of borrowing) if Democrats don't decrease it. Instead of doing the hard work of proposing legislation that can actually pass to address the issue head-on, they again roll out this dangerous gimmick now that a Democrat is again president. Every post of yours on this subject just adds further proof of your economic illiteracy.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

And you continue to conflate extending the debt ceiling with the size of the budget deficit. Threatening to default on our sovereign debt represents a refusal to pay for government expenses already Congressionally approved and incurred and has no bearing on the level of debt, other than it will actually increase the debt as the cost of government borrowing will go up if debt-based government securities become less secure. This makes exactly as much sense as thinking that refusing to pay your credit card bill will reduce the amount you owe to the credit card company.

I'm not conflating anything, as everything after the first sentence demonstrates. The debt and the deficit are linked, however, in two ways:

1) The obvious: a current year's deficit becomes part of next year's debt. You appear to concede this point above. Our government does this with great frequency, which may be news to you based on your diatribe above.
2) In order to gain some negotiating leverage, a vote on the debt ceiling has been delayed. All reports I've read are that discussions on this point amount the elected class are on-going, and going pretty well. However, the House does retain the power of the purse, and it can by vote deny funds for budgeted expenses as a check on the power of the Executive. [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by finnbow

You are so gullible as to believe that the GOP actually cares about the debt while at the same time you defend their irresponsible tax cut that increased the debt by nearly $2 trillion. This makes about as much sense as Matt Gaetz saying that he is deeply concerned about sex trafficking or Donald Trump saying he cares about election integrity (while awaiting indictment for election fraud).

Strawman alert!

No, I don't believe that at all. In fact, I believe quite to opposite and have stated it here a number of times. The fact that you choose to ignore that in order to try again score cheap debate points is your problem, not mine.

Originally Posted by finnbow

In effect, Republicans are threatening to increase the debt (by increasing the cost of borrowing) if Democrats don't decrease it.

Wow. The Repubs are threatening the increase the debt? Something that would happen anyway if they had done nothing? Those beasts!

Originally Posted by finnbow

Every post of yours on this subject just adds further proof of your economic illiteracy.

Sure it does....