More good news from "The Steel Valley".

[Sandy G]

I just really wonder sometimes, though, how things MIGHT have turned out if shortsided management & thickheaded workers in this country had tried to work TOGETHER instead of fighting tooth & nail w/the sacred "Adversarial Relationship" they've traditionally had...Neither side had a monopoly on right or wrong...There were idiots & geniuses aplenty on both sides of the fence. I spose that's pretty naive, but y'know, we've tried it the OTHER way, & what has it got us ? A society that basically does not have enough GOOD-PAYING jobs to support its population....We can't ALL be doctors, lawyers, or indian chiefs...Or flip burgers or the stooge at the door at Wally-World...I REALLY think so much of our economy & society are pure chimera, built on nothing more solid than the derivatives that partially caused this latest mess. I remember when I was a kid, & would go travelling w/my Dad during the summer, & we'd go by a steel plant, car plant, or whatever...An' you'd see the parking lot full of shiny new cars...Now, you go by a plant, & its got a rusting fence, weeds growin' thru the lot, & half the window lights are busted out, & there's a big "FOR SALE" sign in front...Pretty sad, if you ask me. How have we, as a society, allowed this to happen ? Again, prett sad. Shame on us..

[merrylander]

Ah but Sandy, we are now a global economy with everyone in a race to the bottom. Saw a chap on TV who is going to make us energy independent with solar cells. He has them made in China and in order to supervise everything he is moving his family over to China. Florence's only comment "Don't bother to come back". After they have stolen his patents and designs they will probably deport him. He probably applied for a government grant to boot.

Inflation was zero this year so universities are saying they will hold the line and only raise tuition 4%, they are getting as bad as the drug companies.

We sort of got a raise as the $CDN is nearing parity, only $0.0020 to go.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

I just really wonder sometimes, though, how things MIGHT have turned out if shortsided management & thickheaded workers in this country had tried to work TOGETHER instead of fighting tooth & nail w/the sacred "Adversarial Relationship" they've traditionally had...Neither side had a monopoly on right or wrong...There were idiots & geniuses aplenty on both sides of the fence. I spose that's pretty naive, but y'know, we've tried it the OTHER way, & what has it got us ?.

That's what they tried to do at Saturn, isn't it?

You see some of that in the building trades. The building trades union workers are usually the highest paid, but their training and skill supports that pay level. The workers realize that if they don't perform at a level consistent with their pay, they won't stay employed long, and if their fellows don't either, they won't have work to do. The union shops don't compete in the hourly rate, but on the quality and the overall cost of the job. It takes a motivated workforce to compete.

Regards,

D-Ray

[rickr15]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

That's what they tried to do at Saturn, isn't it?

You see some of that in the building trades. The building trades union workers are usually the highest paid, but their training and skill supports that pay level. The workers realize that if they don't perform at a level consistent with their pay, they won't stay employed long, and if their fellows don't either, they won't have work to do. The union shops don't compete in the hourly rate, but on the quality and the overall cost of the job. It takes a motivated workforce to compete.

Regards,

D-Ray

Oddly the union trades guys I know (mostly pipefighters and insulators/sheetmetal) have stayed busy the last few years and the regular hourly guys I know are mostly unemployed or underemployed. Helps to have a skill I guess.
Many do not realize that union tradesmen go to school on the weekends for most of their apprenticeship so they earn those journeymans papers.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by rickr15

Oddly the union trades guys I know (mostly pipefighters and insulators/sheetmetal) have stayed busy the last few years and the regular hourly guys I know are mostly unemployed or underemployed. Helps to have a skill I guess.
Many do not realize that union tradesmen go to school on the weekends for most of their apprenticeship so they earn those journeymans papers.

Actually, what I was saying is consistent with your point. The tradesmen are professional construction workers. Because of the four to five years it takes to get their classroom and on the job training done, they realize what it takes to perform at a journeyman level. They also know that it is their skill and productivity that will keep them working when others aren't. The ones who succeed will generally have a respect for the trade that transcends the employer/worker relationship.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Sandy G]

Oh, yeah...I was well aware of IBEW Local 934-That's where we got our instrument techs, & they were professionals in every sense of the word. We also used them to install machinery & whereas before we had used a non-union house wirer, these guys knew what they were doing. No more "Re-licking yer calf", no more 100-200% overruns on estimates, we sold production off the machines when they signed them over to us almost from the get-go. I am satisfied that going 100% w/union contractors & Local 934 saved us tons of money in the long run, not to mention providing us w/the ability to stay competitive-and ahead-of our competition. I used to hang out w/the guys in the maintenance break room, its amazing what I learned from them.

[Charles]

If the unions really wish to remain viable, they need to develop a plan to organize China, Indonesia, and Mexico. Otherwise, it's simply a race to the bottom.

Chas

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Oh, yeah...I was well aware of IBEW Local 934-That's where we got our instrument techs, & they were professionals in every sense of the word. We also used them to install machinery & whereas before we had used a non-union house wirer, these guys knew what they were doing. No more "Re-licking yer calf", no more 100-200% overruns on estimates, we sold production off the machines when they signed them over to us almost from the get-go. I am satisfied that going 100% w/union contractors & Local 934 saved us tons of money in the long run, not to mention providing us w/the ability to stay competitive-and ahead-of our competition. I used to hang out w/the guys in the maintenance break room, its amazing what I learned from them.

I've heard a lot of stories like yours, and I've also heard some where one or two contractors had to be used because of one union or another's claim to particular work. Some of the smart contractors have contracts with more than one trade, so that they can send out a crew able to do whatever needs to be done. I know I'm biased, but the hours and hours I have spent with building trades people convince me of their worth. I suggested to one of my sons that, as much as he loves working with his hands, he should consider applying for the trades, but he had his mind set on other things.

Regards,

D-Ray

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Charles

If the unions really wish to remain viable, they need to develop a plan to organize China, Indonesia, and Mexico. Otherwise, it's simply a race to the bottom.

Chas

I agree with you there, at least with respect to manufacturing jobs. Some unions are taking the international part of their names to heart. It's not gonna be easy, because the corporate masters can get away with even more over there than they can here.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Charles]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

I've heard a lot of stories like yours, and I've also heard some where one or two contractors had to be used because of one union or another's claim to particular work. Some of the smart contractors have contracts with more than one trade, so that they can send out a crew able to do whatever needs to be done. I know I'm biased, but the hours and hours I have spent with building trades people convince me of their worth. I suggested to one of my sons that, as much as he loves working with his hands, he should consider applying for the trades, but he had his mind set on other things.

Regards,

D-Ray

If you're a one trick pony, you're going to spend a lot of time in the stall waiting for your chance to balance the ball on your nose.

And the best of luck with your son. If he is as intelligent as you, I'm sure he'll find his niche.

Chas