Slippery Slope: City Lighting

[toxcrusadr]

Originally Posted by HarmanKardon

The new LED street light the relevant assholes of my town have installed in front of my house about eight weeks ago is so FUCKING bright that I almost need sunglasses at night when I look outside. A nightmare. A damned nightmare. And this light is as ugly cold white as the light in a morgue. My entire front garden looks at night as if it was covered by a winding sheet.

Didn't read the whole thread but this was so true last fall at our house. Street lights were the old orange sodium vapor. Every time one goes out they replace it with LED. It lit up the front living room from across the street! I complained...to their credit they came back out. 2 things happening: 1) it was aimed way too high throwing light across the street. They reaimed it. And 2) they agreed it was way too bright and disabled half of it! Fortunately I got my city councilman involved and I think he was going to follow up on it and advocate for sensible lighting levels in the city.

As for the thread topic...I also have a place in the country where my shop is. A couple thoughts: Do city/suburban people actually know how damn DARK it is with no lights? I mean you can't see your feet some nights. Now, I have two dusk to dawn lights (essentially street lights on poles, with light sensors). I'm kind of happy to have them EXCEPT when I want to sit out on the shop patio and watch stars. They have no switches and the poco will not provide switches.

[Wasillaguy]

For years when we first bought our place in Wasilla I commuted to work in Anchorage across a wide marshy valley known as "the hay flats". It was very dark and the view of stars and northern lights was spectacular.
Unfortunately, this stretch was notorious for moose collisions, and eventually they put in lights to reduce the risk. It was the right thing to do, but ruined the show.
We don't have a very good view from the house, street light just a couple doors down and hill/trees to the north blocking the prime aurora sky.
When they're predicting the activity will be good, we now sometimes drive up the pass 10 or 15 miles to get the pitch black environment for optimum color effects.

[merrylander]

We have a modest post light in front of the house more as a conenience to our neighbors as there are no street lights here. For the burglars we have motion operation 300 watt halogens.

So far no one has bitched about the post light.

[toxcrusadr]

Perhaps some time in the future we will begin to have 'smart lighting' that lights when it needs to and lights less or not at all when it's not needed. I can certainly agree with the idea of questioning what we have always assumed about city lighting. As well as using new technology to make it more adaptable to our needs. ALL of our needs.

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by merrylander

We have a modest post light in front of the house more as a conenience to our neighbors as there are no street lights here. For the burglars we have motion operation 300 watt halogens.

So far no one has bitched about the post light.

Has anyone bitched about the 300W burglar halogens? Automatic lights piss me off as I walk at night. It reminds me of being watched. The equivalent sensation from Germany was seeing curtains swing as I walked by. The bastards are watching me.

But those emotions and memories are not why I write tonight. Instead I write because I ran across a thread on an astrophotography board that reminded me of this thread. Here it is:

http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/55.../#entry7555146

In a nutshell, one photographer was making progress on an image that takes several nights to complete. During that time someone erected a swinging searchlight type of advertising in his field of view. The photographer felt dejected.

A second photographer came to his aid and explained that statistics and optical filters can probably ignore the swinging searchlights.

Somewhere between the emotions of those two photographers is where I feel about city lighting. Their emotions are as real as the light. No?

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by ebacon

Has anyone bitched about the 300W burglar halogens? Automatic lights piss me off as I walk at night. It reminds me of being watched. The equivalent sensation from Germany was seeing curtains swing as I walked by. The bastards are watching me.

Since they would have to be trespassing in my backyard to switch them on I don't think they will be bitching.

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Since they would have to be trespassing in my backyard to switch them on I don't think they will be bitching.

Interesting point. Would you entertain a thought experiment?

I do not know how your back yard is laid out, but I visualize it as a typical North American yard that extends at least fifty feet from the back of the house. Suppose your local government wanted to create a walkable neighborhood. In the process they drew up a quick plan that showed a footpath through your property that is a reasonable distance from your house, say at least fifty feet.

Assuming that you said OK to the plan and granted an easement, would you still feel a need for automatic security lighting in the back yard? If so, why?

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by ebacon

Interesting point. Would you entertain a thought experiment?

I do not know how your back yard is laid out, but I visualize it as a typical North American yard that extends at least fifty feet from the back of the house. Suppose your local government wanted to create a walkable neighborhood. In the process they drew up a quick plan that showed a footpath through your property that is a reasonable distance from your house, say at least fifty feet.

Assuming that you said OK to the plan and granted an easement, would you still feel a need for automatic security lighting in the back yard? If so, why?

That's my backyard and it joins similar 'backyards' so the local government would have a job on their hand to create a walkable path. What you see is the cleared part, there is another acre of woods, complete with a small creek.

So they would be well away from the house and I doubt many would be walking it after dark. We had a resident bobcat for a while and it was quite large. There is the odd skunk out and about at night. They tend to leave their aroma on the air well into the next day.

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by merrylander

That's my backyard and it joins similar 'backyards' so the local government would have a job on their hand to create a walkable path. What you see is the cleared part, there is another acre of woods, complete with a small creek.

So they would be well away from the house and I doubt many would be walking it after dark. We had a resident bobcat for a while and it was quite large. There is the odd skunk out and about at night. They tend to leave their aroma on the air well into the next day.

Understood. That's about what my property looks like. The primary difference is that my property has a footpath easement (Paint Creek Trail) along the rear lot line. The footpath is sees fairly heavy use particularly on the weekends.

When I bought the property I looked forward to seeing and hearing pedestrians and bicyclists. It is a soothing sort of traffic sound. Like you, I also have a big honking light in the back, but it is on a manual switch. The automatic lights are buzzkills for me.

As you noted, the trail sees little use after dark. Once or twice a year there might be some loud teenagers walking home from a bar crawl, but that's about it. At least they are not driving. The trail users have never caused me a problem. I have only enjoyed their presence.

At the moment another local community is trying to establish a walking trail. It is interesting to read about residents' fears in the newspaper reports of planning meetings. Calming peoples' fears is a tough job. That's politics I guess.

[merrylander]

Got up in the middle of the night last night and I saw a dim sort of light flash on the bathroom wall. Looked out the window and there is a tall tower (Radio, TV?) south of us about ten or so miles. It used to have blinking red lights on the top, now some idiot has installed a extremely bright flash lamp that blinks every 2 seconds. Folks nearer to it must love it, probably some brilliant idea from the FAA.