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  #11  
Old 12-05-2012, 06:01 PM
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Wasillaguy Wasillaguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post

"My kid does nothing but sit in his room, eating Cheezie Curls, playing video games and smoking up all my dope!
Oh hell no.
Anyone who let's their kid get into their Cheezie Curls stash is just an enabler.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2012, 06:29 PM
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mac mini mac mini is offline
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"Act only on that maxim whereby thou canst at the same time wish that it will be universal law" Emanuel Kant, existentialist and Godless man.

You don't need religion to teach morals. Morals, decorum, honesty are the fabric of society. These are values that should be taught in school.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2012, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasillaguy View Post
Oh hell no.
Anyone who let's their kid get into their Cheezie Curls stash is just an enabler.
LMAO!

Dave
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2012, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac mini View Post
"Act only on that maxim whereby thou canst at the same time wish that it will be universal law" Emanuel Kant, existentialist and Godless man.

You don't need religion to teach morals. Morals, decorum, honesty are the fabric of society. These are values that should be taught in school.
Forget where I heard it, but it went something like this;

"There are many things I don't do simply because I understand it's wrong and hurtful to myself and others. If one requires the ever present threat of eternal damnation to keep ones self in line.............that says something about the individual."

Regards,
Dave
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
I agree that parents have as much or more to do with childrens' success as any school. OTOH, in inner-city or other impoverished areas where parent(s) have no formal education, no meaningful work experience, etc., positive parental influences don't exist and the schools are forced to act in loco parentis if we, as a society, expect these kids to grow up to be successful/productive.
This is NOT directed at you Finn. However, I am really tired of this argument. I fully recognize that times are different, kids get exposed to certain influences may too early, etc, etc, etc.

However, I think about my parents growing up during a depression, when bread and milk sandwiches were on the menu for dinner - if they could afford dinner. There was no TV, no money to keep lights on at night so they lit candles, kids finding whatever they could to play with because there was no Xbox, etc. Kids were taught to be grateful for the little that they had, any small success was celebrated, and there was much more a sense of community than there is today, supported by folks actually getting together frequently with their neighbors, whether formally or informally just sitting on the porch in the evening talking while the kids played in the yard together.

We now have a society where expectations are high and entitlement is the currency. There is no sense of gratitude and achievement is disparaged. Parents are more concerned about what's going on at work than what's going on at home. I've heard more times than I care to count about folks who can't wait to get to work so that they can get away from the kids. Community now comes to you via your TV which usually brings you the most depressing possible view of the world, while families retreat inside their homes at night and tune out the world outside.

And then we wonder why kids have no respect for themselves or others?

Rant over. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:59 AM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Sometimes a good smack on the back of the head is in order.

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  #17  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
This is NOT directed at you Finn. However, I am really tired of this argument. I fully recognize that times are different, kids get exposed to certain influences may too early, etc, etc, etc....
I fully understand your frustration. As someone who lives in a county with close to the best schools in the nation (MoCo, MD) adjacent to several jurisdictions with close to the worst (DC and PGCo, MD), it's abundantly clear to me that throwing money at the schools doesn't seem to help and that parental involvement is key.

I don't claim to have the answer to this (nor does anyone else, given the evidence at hand). However, something needs to be done to break the cycle and educational success is the key. How to get there from here isn't. Ranting to 16 year old unwed mothers about their lack of parenting skills probably isn't the answer though.
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
This is NOT directed at you Finn. However, I am really tired of this argument. I fully recognize that times are different, kids get exposed to certain influences may too early, etc, etc, etc.

However, I think about my parents growing up during a depression, when bread and milk sandwiches were on the menu for dinner - if they could afford dinner. There was no TV, no money to keep lights on at night so they lit candles, kids finding whatever they could to play with because there was no Xbox, etc. Kids were taught to be grateful for the little that they had, any small success was celebrated, and there was much more a sense of community than there is today, supported by folks actually getting together frequently with their neighbors, whether formally or informally just sitting on the porch in the evening talking while the kids played in the yard together.

We now have a society where expectations are high and entitlement is the currency. There is no sense of gratitude and achievement is disparaged. Parents are more concerned about what's going on at work than what's going on at home. I've heard more times than I care to count about folks who can't wait to get to work so that they can get away from the kids. Community now comes to you via your TV which usually brings you the most depressing possible view of the world, while families retreat inside their homes at night and tune out the world outside.

And then we wonder why kids have no respect for themselves or others?

Rant over. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
Interesting rant. Interesting, because it is confusing.

"....acheivement is disparaged."---It is? How? We THROW money at the successful in this country. Even when they fail and drag the global economy down with them. Even our sports figures and entetainers are wealthier than some COUNTRIES are. Because no matter how wealthy they become, it's never enough and we expect them to put some of it back into society?

"Parents are more concerned about what's going on at work than what's going on at home."

I've never met this person. Must be a management thing.
'Cuz, I know they certainly expect the rest of us to care more about the job than we do our families.

"Community now comes to you via your TV which usually brings you the most depressing possible view of the world, while families retreat inside their homes at night and tune out the world outside."

This I can agree with. Isolation is never good. It leads one to be apathetic towards the condition of the world around them and causes them to persue ambitions that are entirely selfish, narrow and single-minded, with no regard as to how their actions screw other people. In otherwords, they become Gordon Gekko.

Regards,
Dave
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:52 AM
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Boreas Boreas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
This is NOT directed at you Finn. However, I am really tired of this argument. I fully recognize that times are different, kids get exposed to certain influences may too early, etc, etc, etc.

However, I think about my parents growing up during a depression, when bread and milk sandwiches were on the menu for dinner - if they could afford dinner. There was no TV, no money to keep lights on at night so they lit candles, kids finding whatever they could to play with because there was no Xbox, etc. Kids were taught to be grateful for the little that they had, any small success was celebrated, and there was much more a sense of community than there is today, supported by folks actually getting together frequently with their neighbors, whether formally or informally just sitting on the porch in the evening talking while the kids played in the yard together.

We now have a society where expectations are high and entitlement is the currency. There is no sense of gratitude and achievement is disparaged. Parents are more concerned about what's going on at work than what's going on at home. I've heard more times than I care to count about folks who can't wait to get to work so that they can get away from the kids. Community now comes to you via your TV which usually brings you the most depressing possible view of the world, while families retreat inside their homes at night and tune out the world outside.

And then we wonder why kids have no respect for themselves or others?

Rant over. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
This is truly pathological. Everything you assert about the Depression is romanticized treacle and everything you say about the present is cynical carping.

Nuff sed.

John
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2012, 09:12 AM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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I have a memoir of the Cleveland Superintendent of Schools from back at the turn of the last century, when Cleveland was a leading district nationwide. He said 'You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.'

Now, he'd be fired.

Pete
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