Do you see the U.S. being headed for a second civil war?

[icenine]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

I think the key would lay in electoral college reform, or it's abandonment.

This idea of defunding the most vulnerable people in the red states is nothing short of fascism, akin to social eugenics. So the old, the weak are targeted.

You think the Supremists would learn a lesson from that ? They might get more angry without even making a connection to their own behavior being the so-called 'cause'.

Or they might respect the decision to kill off the lame. Join in some kind of secret society with the people from this 'think tank'.

Yeah it would be a pretty bad thing. However, red states nullifying elections would basically destroy America. And would make the things you worry about inevitable. My point was if there is no loyal opposition extreme measures might be proposed if an illegitimate government was about to threaten the whole democratic experiment.

The Supreme Court isn't powerful. It can't enforce its decisions. By ignoring precedent it can push a President into a corner. The power of the court comes from Presidents of both parties enforcing and abiding its decisions. All it takes is one President...Trump, Biden, or whoever, to ignore it if they thought a decision was an existential threat to American democracy. Then it's over for that institution. That is why what they are doing re:abortion in Texas is very dangerous.

Georgia is actually decreasing polling stations and at the same time denying people the right to drink water while forcing those same voters to wait hours in voting lines. I would call that fascism that is actually codified by Georgia state law. If the Republican Senators and their colleagues Mansion and Sinema don't want to outlaw that what is America supposed to to do?
Just sit back and let it happen? What does America do if Georgian Republican voting officials don't count the legitimate vote and decide to throw the election to a candidate that really didn't win?

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by icenine

Yeah it would be a pretty bad thing. However, red states nullifying elections would basically destroy America. And would make the things you worry about inevitable. My point was if there is no loyal opposition extreme measures might be proposed if an illegitimate government was about to threaten the whole democratic experiment.

The Supreme Court isn't powerful. It can't enforce its decisions. By ignoring precedent it can push a President into a corner. The power of the court comes from Presidents of both parties enforcing and abiding its decisions. All it takes is one President...Trump, Biden, or whoever, to ignore it if they thought a decision was an existential threat to American democracy. Then it's over for that institution. That is why what they are doing re:abortion in Texas is very dangerous.

Georgia is actually decreasing polling stations and at the same time denying people the right to drink water while forcing those same voters to wait hours in voting lines. I would call that fascism that is actually codified by Georgia state law. If the Republican Senators and their colleagues Mansion and Sinema don't want to outlaw that what is America supposed to to do?
Just sit back and let it happen? What does America do if Georgian Republican voting officials don't count the legitimate vote and decide to throw the election to candidate that really didn't win?

I see what you guys mean about red states being over-represented, and being in a position to slip 'operatives' into the political machine.

Many of them move into a red state just to become politicians. And they can buy votes with campaign promises, and Federal Relief money.

I don't see it as a threat to American democracy, because the idea we live in a democratic society is a hoax. We never have, and we never will. It's an illusion that is transforming into something else at the present time.

Our founding fathers were a small number of rich white guys who didn't want to pay their taxes. Then they had to generate revenue to stay in power, went after the moonshiners, the first task of the standing army. Because the top dogs always have to appear morally righteous. Then all the citizens had to start paying taxes.

Blah, blah pay your taxes, accept the idea that the poor get a few drippings from the hideous machine.

I'll stop now, have a tendency to ramble.

[Dondilion]

Hoax? Essentially because it allows for minority rule via the electoral college?

[Oerets]

Complain all we want the electoral college will be around for awhile yet. First it was a way for slave states to balance power, to now less populated states to use for same. As much as we would love a true Democracy, in the end one vote over 50% means mob rule...what to do and when the mob is dangerous? Wants to destroy the democracy and replace with a dictatorship. It might be our saving grace if allowed to go forth as intended.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

I see what you guys mean about red states being over-represented, and being in a position to slip 'operatives' into the political machine.

Many of them move into a red state just to become politicians. And they can buy votes with campaign promises, and Federal Relief money.

I don't see it as a threat to American democracy, because the idea we live in a democratic society is a hoax. We never have, and we never will. It's an illusion that is transforming into something else at the present time.

Our founding fathers were a small number of rich white guys who didn't want to pay their taxes. Then they had to generate revenue to stay in power, went after the moonshiners, the first task of the standing army. Because the top dogs always have to appear morally righteous. Then all the citizens had to start paying taxes.

Blah, blah pay your taxes, accept the idea that the poor get a few drippings from the hideous machine.

I'll stop now, have a tendency to ramble.

That’s exactly what Putin and other autocrats want their people to believe: the system sucks anyway so just accept my plutocracy. That’s the same thing going on here when Trump said the system is rigged; same thing the Right here in the USA by saying government doesn’t work…even exporting it to Canadian truckers.
The system isn’t perfect but it does work and we can improve it.

[BigElCat]

Okay. Hoax is the wrong word. I mean it makes very little sense to me.

I don't want to seem Un-American, I've read

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

Tens of millions killed in Russia while Marxism was rammed down their throats, under the pretext of 'power to the common man'.

I'm one of the poor people being wiped out in America, my POV is tainted. I'm grateful it hasn't been worse.

[nailer]

^^^
Wiped out as in becoming lower level consumers?

[nailer]

Originally Posted by icenine

That’s exactly what Putin and other autocrats want their people to believe: the system sucks anyway so just accept my plutocracy. That’s the same thing going on here when Trump said the system is rigged; same thing the Right here in the USA by saying government doesn’t work…even exporting it to Canadian truckers.
The system isn’t perfect but it does work and we can improve it.

Like all systems, ours is rigged on many levels. Neither party is interested in messing with how we elect the president as far altering the Constitution is concerned.

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by nailer

Wiped out as in becoming lower level consumers?

Hmph.

We prefer to be called 'thrifty'. It's the stage before homeless.

[nailer]

The export of middle class jobs began in the 60s with the consumer electronics industry.

That IBM desktop just plain evaporated a lot of nice middle class jobs.

Interesting how both parties basically fully buy into this and other similar stuff ...