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  #41  
Old 12-06-2012, 01:19 PM
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Pat, some poeple see a downside to seeing a bluecollar trade as a "profession". Calling something a "profession" usually means you will pay a higher premuim for that work and those who perform it will consider it a "specialty".

If you downplay welding, pipefitting, sheet metal work, mechanical work and so on as something any idiot can do it makes it easier to insist that one person do it all. And, quite possibly, at a lower wage than a "professional" would expect.

When I first entered the workforce, it was full of professional machinists, mechanics, welders and so on. Now, nearly everywhere you go they expect all of these things to be done by the same folks.......Fewer employees at lower wages. That's what it's all about.

Problem is, it doesn't work very well. I'm a pretty good mechanic, a fair welder and know a few basic things about electricity.............can't machine worth a shit. Most guys are a one trick pony. That's not being mean, it's just a statement of fact.

But, try telling that to management. They seem to think things will always work as they demand them to........

Regards,
Dave
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  #42  
Old 12-06-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
One reason why these "vo-tech" programs work better in Europe is that the trades aren't stigmatized there as they are here.

John
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov...onomy-20121111


most def

read the middle part of the article where it mentions vocational education.
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  #43  
Old 12-06-2012, 01:46 PM
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I would hazard a guess that the recession may have been easier on those in vocational trades where the service can not be outsourced. If you majored in Philosophy back in the 80s you may be as competitive at an MBA is now...or vice versa. Any MBAs here?
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  #44  
Old 12-08-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by icenine View Post
I would hazard a guess that the recession may have been easier on those in vocational trades where the service can not be outsourced. If you majored in Philosophy back in the 80s you may be as competitive at an MBA is now...or vice versa. Any MBAs here?
Not me, I dropped out after the ttenth grade but if that guy Beach from the Heritage Foundation I saw on the Newshour last night was an MBA I'll take him on anytime. He was saying the the reason the unemployment was much lower is that a lot of people have stopped looking. Then he went on to say that people who had been unemployed for so many weeks had lost their skills and were unemployable.

I never heard so much BS in my life, companies here are spoiled rotten. they locate where states or towns give them tax breaks then the whine because the schools are not turning out their robots and they wany the taxpayer to pay for re-training people. I'll be that all those Chinese they outsourced their company to needed training. In fact that was the hidden cost of outsourcing and is why companies like GE are bringing it back. Far too many expensive flights back and forth to China to get things done right.

I wonder did the first CNC machine come with an operator? They complain that programming one is difficult and requires special skills. More BS, back at Bell we made programmmers out of guys in the St. Vincent de Paul prison in Montreal, and later hired some when they got out. If company X wants trained people, do what any intelligent company does, find people who can learn and train them. You might have to fire the whole HR department to find them but they are out there.

Sorry getting crabby in my old age, turning 82 today probably did it.
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  #45  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
Yeah they had vocational when I went, but the whole 'machine' was set up for college prep.

I think a lot of European countries have a test at a certain age that determines which kind of school you go to.

Pete
Germany does.
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  #46  
Old 12-10-2012, 08:16 AM
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....

Sorry getting crabby in my old age, turning 82 today probably did it.
Happy belated birthday, cantankerous Rob

Pete
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