For the first time in 3 decades

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Higher taxes is one side of the equation. The other side is no more insurance premiums.

There is still another side..... Access to preventative care. That is what will save us lots of money in the long run.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Sure, 12% less of your take home. No thanks..

Let's take a look at Bernie's proposed tax chart.

It looks like nobody under 250K per year will pay any more in taxes.

And it doesn't start costing you an extra 12% until you get ABOVE $10 MILLION A YEAR.

Shit Grump, I didn't know you were knocking down $10 million plus a year!

Dayum!

[finnbow]

If Sanders is elected, there's simply NFW that single-payer would pass. The best that can be hoped for is tweaking of Obamacare by Hillary or Sanders or even someone like Kasich.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by finnbow

If Sanders is elected, there's simply NFW that single-payer would pass. The best that can be hoped for is tweaking of Obamacare by Hillary or Sanders or even someone like Kasich.

There are two kinds of people in this world Finn.

"Can do" people and "No can do" people.

You are a "No can do" person.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

A lot of people don't see that because their employers are picking up a big chunk of those premiums. But with an average family policy going for $16,000 a year (and that was 2013, it's probably more now)

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...ly-f6C10960584

The fact is their employers are passing those costs on to their employees by paying lower salaries and other benefits.

I know the group plan that covers State of Florida Employees is $1444 a month. That's $17,000 a year.

It's because the average worker only views their wage/salary as compensation. Viewed as a total package, health insurance is a HUGE portion of that compensation. When an employer "shifts" some or all of the burden for premiums, they are effectively reducing compensation. So many people don't make the connection between "benefits" and "compensation". It's amazing how much has been lost because of this simple fact............ Consider the loss of decent pension plans.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

There are two kinds of people in this world Finn.

"Can do" people and "No can do" people.

You are a "No can do" person.

Nah, but Sanders is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...5ce_story.html

If anything, I'm pragmatic to a fault.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

It's because the average worker only views their wage/salary as compensation. Viewed as a total package, health insurance is a HUGE portion of that compensation. When an employer "shifts" some or all of the burden for premiums, they are effectively reducing compensation. So many people don't make the connection between "benefits" and "compensation". It's amazing how much has been lost because of this simple fact............ Consider the loss of decent pension plans.

Absolutely right.

For the past 30 years employers have been dropping their defined benefit pension plans and replacing them with 401K type plans. That represents a huge cut in total compensation. So when you see data that shows that wages have been stagnant or in slight decline over the past 30 years that does not take this into account. The reality is that worker compensation has declined much more.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Nah, but Sanders is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...5ce_story.html

If anything, I'm pragmatic to a fault.

I like Obama, but the reality is he was a wimp.

Right out of the gate he showed weakness to the Republicans by trying to be accommodating. From then on he was screwed. When you are put in charge you got to take charge on day one. My daughter who is a classroom teacher can tell you this. You have to come in there at the beginning like a frickin Nazi Drill Sergeant. Then, after you have demonstrated that you won't take any shit, you can ease up a bit. Obama fucked by by going in there and saying "Let's all work together in Harmony, Kum Bah Ya".

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

I like Obama, but the reality is he was a wimp.

Right out of the gate he showed weakness to the Republicans by trying to be accommodating. From then on he was screwed. When you are put in charge you got to take charge on day one. My daughter who is a classroom teacher can tell you this. You have to come in there at the beginning like a frickin Nazi Drill Sergeant. Then, after you have demonstrated that you won't take any shit, you can ease up a bit. Obama fucked by by going in there and saying "Let's all work together in Harmony, Kum Bah Ya".

And yer boy, Bernie, would be far worse in this regard. Though I'm no Hillary fan, her balls are far bigger than Bernie's.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

If Sanders is elected, there's simply NFW that single-payer would pass. The best that can be hoped for is tweaking of Obamacare by Hillary or Sanders or even someone like Kasich.

There's no way Sanders would get anything passed, even your tweaks. Of course, the same is true for Hillary. The only way to get anything done in this country is for a politician to spark a movement, much the same way FDR did, and bring along a cadre of like minded change advocates.

That ain't Hillary.

It sure as hell ain't "Alec" Kasich.

It might be Bernie.