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05-21-2011, 08:42 AM
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Senior Member
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Mid East policy speech
I won't pretend to understand all of the nuances to the on-going hostilities in the Middle East. It's against that backdrop that I'll say that Obama's speech on Thursday leaves me a bit mystified. Why would Isreal agree to the stating point for negotiations with it's neighbors must be a reshaping of it's current borders when that's not what the hostilities are really about? Why should Isreal concede anything until the central issue - a recognition of Isreal's right to exist- is addressed?
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05-21-2011, 08:58 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
I won't pretend to understand all of the nuances to the on-going hostilities in the Middle East. It's against that backdrop that I'll say that Obama's speech on Thursday leaves me a bit mystified. Why would Isreal agree to the stating point for negotiations with it's neighbors must be a reshaping of it's current borders when that's not what the hostilities are really about? Why should Isreal concede anything until the central issue - a recognition of Isreal's right to exist- is addressed?
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Not that I'm particularly sympathetic with either party, but the Palestinian's not recognizing Israel's right to exist is also their going-in position. They don't want to concede on this any more than the Israelis want to concede on anything else prior to negotiations. Either side demanding preconditions is not a good thing.
FWIW, 1967 borders (with land swaps) has been our position for decades and was the basis for the agreement under Clinton that almost got done.
This dust-up yesterday was less than meets the eye. It was about Netanyahu standing tall for his Likkud base constituency and Obama trying to throw a bone to Abbas in an effort to undermine the upcoming UN vote on Palestinian statehood in September.
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As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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05-21-2011, 09:19 AM
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Senior Member
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But doesn't the "dust up" also serve to demonstrate that an agreement on territory would at at best be a political trophy and not lead to a "lasting peace", which is the stated objective of the "peace process"?
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05-21-2011, 09:34 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
But doesn't the "dust up" also serve to demonstrate that an agreement on territory would at at best be a political trophy and not lead to a "lasting peace", which is the stated objective of the "peace process"?
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An agreement will, by its very nature, have to address territorial issues. However, we sometimes seem to believe that there is some sort of magical, yet elusive, territorial line that'll make everyone happy. There isn't.
If I claimed to have the right answer to this intractable mess, I would be the only person on Earth who did. Plopping an Eastern European nation smack dab in the heart of the Mideast created the problem. What will solve it is beyond me.
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As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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05-21-2011, 10:08 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
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I wouldn't care if the borders were redrawn to 1947.
Dave
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
Last edited by BlueStreak; 05-21-2011 at 11:09 AM.
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05-21-2011, 11:10 AM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
I wouldn't care if the borders were redrawn to 1947.
Dave
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Better yet, 1946.
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"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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05-21-2011, 12:58 PM
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Sir Lord Vader of Cheam
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lewiston, ID
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
Better yet, 1946.
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I can't disagree. There's a sense of entitlement there that -- very much -- rivals the concept of Manifest Destiny in the Americas.
In this sense, what's the difference between Eastern US American Indian tribes and the current Palestinians? Today's Palestinians aren't counting on assistance from the French in order to be relevant, militarily...
Palestine DOES have a point that Israel is an "invented" nation that was forced upon the Middle East after WWII.
I'd be mad, too.
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"American" means calling everyone who disagrees with you a traitor?
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05-21-2011, 07:17 PM
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
I can't disagree. There's a sense of entitlement there that -- very much -- rivals the concept of Manifest Destiny in the Americas.
In this sense, what's the difference between Eastern US American Indian tribes and the current Palestinians? Today's Palestinians aren't counting on assistance from the French in order to be relevant, militarily...
Palestine DOES have a point that Israel is an "invented" nation that was forced upon the Middle East after WWII.
I'd be mad, too.
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Of course, that completely ignores the history of the Jewish people in the Holy Land. The Israelis may have been in the area just as long, or longer, than the Palastinians.
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05-21-2011, 10:26 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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The arabs had good offers made twice and both times they said no.
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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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05-21-2011, 11:08 AM
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Abby Normal
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 11,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
The arabs had good offers made twice and both times they said no.
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good by who's standards?
the only standards that matter are Israel's and the Palestinian's
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