Speaking of governors...

[Ike Bana]

We got a new one here in Illinois who's gonna give Scott Walker a real run for his money. His name is Bruce Rauner...he's a billionaire corporate raider. Sort of a small-time Willard who's most recent claim to business fame is ownership of one of them most disgusting senior nursing facilities in the state of Illinois.

John Kass, Chicago Tribune muckraking poor excuse for Mike Royko, refers to Rauner as "Scott Walker on steroids."

He took a run at public employee unions last week. Illinois public employees who don't want to belong to their union aren't required to join or pay dues. However since they benefit from union collective bargaining, they do have to pay certain fees covering the unions cost of bargaining efforts and some other stuff. So Rauner issued an executive order (I thought them right-wingjobs hated the concept of the executive order these days), that would divert this fee money from the unions and put it in escrow and if the courts agree...would release it back to the workers, not the union. His own GOP comptroller nixed it. Rauner has a pretty ugly temper so...can ya hear the backroom intra-party screaming coming out of the governor's mansion, eh?

He's also already flip-flopped on a campaign promise that public employee unions would not be prohibited from collective bargaining on wages, benefits, and pensions, and now says they should only be able to negotiate on "hours, assignments and working conditions." So he's a goddamn liar just like our earlier governors...after promising that he was a businessman not a politician, and that politics in Illinois was gonna change.

Rauner is also dealing with an Illinois General Assembly with a House 71-47 Democrat, and a Senate 39-20 Democrat. Good luck with your legislation Bruce. We may have Scott Walker on steroids, but we do not have a cheesehead state legislature. So it's already pretty vicious here in blue country. Stay tuned.

[finnbow]

He and Scott Walker may both be assholes, but they're both right with regard to public sector unions. His proposed changes are exactly what have been in place for Federal sector employees unions for decades. Public sector unions should contribute to the planning of annual picnics and office moves, but little else.

FWIW, FDR himself was strongly opposed to public sector unions. The unholy alliance that has grown between public sector unions and the Democratic Party results in all sorts of nefarious stuff, mostly huge deferred compensation programs that break the bank after the complicit politician is gone.

The labor movement has lost so much representation in the private sector that they now must rely upon public sector unions to undergird the foundering labor movement. That's not what public sector employees should be doing.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

He and Scott Walker may both be assholes, but they're both right with regard to public sector unions. His proposed changes are exactly what have been in place for Federal sector employees unions for decades. Public sector unions should contribute to the planning of annual picnics and office moves, but little else.

FWIW, FDR himself was strongly opposed to public sector unions. The unholy alliance that has grown between public sector unions and the Democratic Party results in all sorts of nefarious stuff, mostly huge deferred compensation programs that break the bank after the complicit politician is gone.

The labor movement has lost so much representation in the private sector that they now must rely upon public sector unions to undergird the foundering labor movement. That's not what public sector employees should be doing.

Oh please, what a steaming carload of shit. Walker is a union busting teabagger. Rauner is Walker on steroids. You can't really believe that either one of them will stop with public employee unions. Maybe you don't want it to stop with public employee unions. If that's the case, just fucking say so. Rauner is a ruthless modern day JP Morgan. He wants American unions, in both the public and private sector gone. As far as Rauner is concerned the working class should consider themselves lucky to have jobs. As far as Rauner is concerned they have no rights...particularly rights not to collectively bargain for a living wage and reasonable benefits. Illinois and most other states are already "at will" and the workers have no rights to a reasonable explanation for why they've been canned, much less any recourse without buying an attorney his/her next BMW by going to court over it.

And your contention that this is about some unholy alliance between union leaders and Democrat politicians is pure bullshit. Illinois has had as many Republican governors as Democrats in the past half-century. Republican politicians have had just as much to do with the pay and pension situation in Illinois (and any other state) as have Democrats. If states are in trouble in part because of public employee contracts and pensions, it's the fault of vote whoring politicians, not union leaders. The union people are just doing their job...getting the best deal they can for their members. But politicians are doing what they do for their own political careers. So when the union guys and the political guys are sitting around the negotiation table what is in the union guy's head is getting the best deal he can for his members. What's in the politician's head is he might lose three votes if the union goes out and the garbage doesn't get picked up this week. So the vote whoring politicians cave in every time...and then turn around and blame it on the commie public employee unions and greedy double dipping public employees. And of course, we have vote whoring politicians because of the lazy-ass, ignorant electorate.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Oh please, what a steaming carload of shit. Walker is a union busting teabagger. Rauner is Walker on steroids. You can't really believe that either one of them will stop with public employee unions. Maybe you don't want it to stop with public employee unions. If that's the case, just fucking say so....

All I said was that I'm against public sector unions. This view has no bearing on my support for private sector unions. What these Governors are doing reflects almost exactly what has been the case for decades for Federal employees. Civil Service laws/reg's provide far more employee protection than any collective bargaining agreement could.

And your contention that this is about some unholy alliance between union leaders and Democrat politicians is pure bullshit.... What's in the politician's head is he might lose three votes if the union goes out and the garbage doesn't get picked up this week. So the vote whoring politicians cave in every time...

Your argument makes my very point. Thanks. You sure do get emotionally charged up about shit you barely understand - kinda like my Limbaugh-listening, Fox-viewing mother-in-law.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

All I said was that I'm against public sector unions. This view has no bearing on my support for private sector unions. What these Governors are doing reflects almost exactly what has been the case for decades for Federal employees. Civil Service laws/reg's provide far more employee protection than any collective bargaining agreement could.

Look...you sit there and spew that you basically appreciate people like Walker and Rauner for ridding American of the scourge of public employee unions. So what are you gonna do finn...walk up to Scotty and Bruce after they've decimated public employees ability to have some power in negotiating their ability to support their families and say..."Scotty...Bruce...time to stop with the union busting now." First...they're asshole teabaggers they will never stop. Second...public employees should have the same rights as private sector employees. Put the blame for the poor financial condition of the states where it belongs...with the office holders responsible for the management of state government and spending and with the electorate that puts them there and keeps them there. Stop blaming the workers and their union representatives who are just doing the job they should be doing which is getting the best deal they can for the working people.

Originally Posted by finnbow

You sure do get emotionally charged up about shit you barely understand -

Is there some reason, besides being a completely pompous asshole, that you can't argue or state an opinion without this shit? Go fuck yourself. And stuff your smiley face up your fat zit-covered ass.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Look...you sit there and spew that you basically appreciate people like Walker and Rauner for ridding American of the scourge of public employee unions.

I guess you don't recognize the irony of posting that "...vote whoring politicians cave in every time..." while at the same time criticizing Governors who refuse to do so.

Is there some reason, besides being a completely pompous asshole, that you can't argue or state an opinion without this shit? Go fuck yourself. And stuff your smiley face up your fat zit-covered ass.

Got a mirror? I was responding in kind.

The bottom line is that in the private sector management and unions need to balance employee compensation and benefits with a company's need for continued profitability (in order to continue to exist in the marketplace).

This dynamic doesn't exist in the public sector. The prime motivator of politicians is to get (re)elected. If it takes agreeing to deferred compensation/benefits that a municipality can't afford in order to be reelected, most politicians will do so, particularly when the union on the receiving end of said benefits will become foot-soldiers in their next election campaign.

I have no problem with the existence of public sector unions, per se. However, I do have a problem with them bargaining over wages/benefits and having the ability to strike (none of which they can do as Federal employees, BTW). I'll defer to FDR's judgement in this matter.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

.................................................. .................................................. ......
The union people are just doing their job...getting the best deal they can for their members. But politicians are doing what they do for their own political careers. So when the union guys and the political guys are sitting around the negotiation table what is in the union guy's head is getting the best deal he can for his members. What's in the politician's head is he might lose three votes if the union goes out and the garbage doesn't get picked up this week. So the vote whoring politicians cave in every time...and then turn around and blame it on the commie public employee unions and greedy double dipping public employees. And of course, we have vote whoring politicians because of the lazy-ass, ignorant electorate.

You have made my case. Union leaders are negotiating with politicians and bureaucrats. This constitutes the management that union leaders engage with to get the best deal? Do they even stop and think if the deal is sustainable. Politicians only know how to get reelected and spend tax payers money. Prime motivation of a bureaucrat is a lifetime job, paper pushing and developing an expertise in CYA. Do any of these people know what fiscal responsibility is?

Or for that matter, how many ex-government employees can find employment in the civilian field other than a few highly trained people (MIC excluded)? And why do you think that is?

I was at our DMV a couple weeks back, close to fifty people waiting to be served and an agent put up a "closed" sign on her window and announced to her coworkers she was going on a break. A lady next to me said that this will never happen in private industry since it's imperative that all windows be open for business especially since it was close to the end of their work day. Do the DMV in California have a union? Probably and mirrors the USPS.

I will put Comcast in the same group as any government agency, but they have a monopoly masquerading as a private business.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

You have made my case.

My ass.

Originally Posted by BeamOn

Union leaders are negotiating with politicians and bureaucrats. This constitutes the management that union leaders engage with to get the best deal? Do they even stop and think if the deal is sustainable. Politicians only know how to get reelected and spend tax payers money. Prime motivation of a bureaucrat is a lifetime job, paper pushing and developing an expertise in CYA. Do any of these people know what fiscal responsibility is?

It's not the union reps job to do the bureaucrat's job. The bureaucrat has just as much responsibility to not bankrupt the system as a private corporate executive. If the bureaucrat can't do that...the people should get rid of the bureaucrat...just like CEO of a corporation will get rid of the executive that can't do it, and the board of directors will get rid of the CEO who doesn't manage his/her executives. It's a corporate executive's responsibility to determine if the deal, any deal not just employee benefits deals, are sustainable. It's no less an elected official's responsibility. The union rep's responsibility is to get his worker the best deal he can for that worker's family.

Blaming workers and their union reps is a bullshit excuse for bureaucrats, and private sector management not doing their jobs. If union reps were "stopping and thinking" about the sustainability of what they're asking for going into negotiations...bureaucrats and corporate types would be hanging them out to dry and twist in the wind every goddamn time. And as usual, the people coming out on the short end would be the workers.

And if the electorate won't get rid of the politicians and bureaucrats who won't do their jobs then the electorate has nobody to blame but themselves. It's so easy for Joe Suburban Sixpack sitting in his fucking barcalounger with a bag of cheetos focusing on important stuff like the point spread in the Bears game to vote for Bruce Rauner and spew venom at greedy public employees.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

I will put Comcast in the same group as any government agency, but they have a monopoly masquerading as a private business.

Well they did come out two Sundays back because my cable modem was not working. Since it is my modem and my router they could have given me a weekday appointment.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Well they did come out two Sundays back because my cable modem was not working. Since it is my modem and my router they could have given me a weekday appointment.

Who made the call, you or Florence? They probably thought they were helping a damsel in distress till you opened the door in your Archie Bunker robe.